** 3 different stands ( Pics), which do you prefer ** - Page 2

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by Sunsilver on 08 November 2017 - 17:11

Second picture: need more light on the dog.
Third pic is best, as far as judging dog's conformation, but it is hard to see the dog's topline because it blends in with your blue jeans.
First pic is best as far as lighting goes.

by Hundmutter on 08 November 2017 - 19:11

@ Waleed - I would if: A) I could lay hands on one I consider 'perfect', and B) if I didn't have the trouble I always do have with posting any pics on this site (editing problems and others) LOL. So, sorry, no.

I can tell you a bit more about what I do and don't like about your 3 photos however.

Picture #1 Her rear legs are too close together as you omitted to spread the feet a little wider for balance. Couple this with the fact the GSD is a longish bodied dog in relation to its height and I hope you can see the point of how the stretched Show stance evolved. It is perfectly natural to a GSD to stand at least some of the time with one rear foot a bit forward and one back. Not to say the Stance has not been stretched and abused over time, to get to where we are nowadays. And yes when used badly, too much does hurt the view of the dogs' overline.
I think you have quite often achieved better, with other pics of your other dogs.

I don't know how well you can see detail in my small icon photo of Taz - he is standing naturally. I think everyone should be able to see that this UK Show-bred dog of International/Germanic 'type' has his rear feet one ahead of the other; but that his topline is not showing a hinge or drastic slope. And his hocks are not flat on the ground !

Sunny is right about the use of lighting in Pic #2.

In Pic #3 you have returned to having the rear feet almost in a straight line, a problem you avoided in #2.  Makes her look narrow, and unsteady.

I think the feet placement makes a great deal of difference to whether a Stack is successful or not; most of the other messing about Handlers indulge in, with putting hands on the rear of the dog etc, become unnecessary if you can get the dog standing correctly balanced over the ground it covers. Provided your dog is thus balanced (and they can be taught to walk into stance, you do not have to manipulate their feet - just then teach them to stand STILL) you can then concentrate on getting the overall body shape right from the point of view of the judge.  I'm pretty sure you have sometime seen the suggestion about standing your dogs in front of a mirror, so you can see what the show judge sees reflected back, and adjust accordingly.  And practice, practice, practice.

Western Rider (admin)

by Western Rider on 08 November 2017 - 19:11

How about the picture used here in the upper left corner

German Shepherd Dog

by waleed786 on 08 November 2017 - 19:11

@ hundmutter, noted...

I bet the folk from south east europe will take pic 3 anyday if you what i mean..

by Hundmutter on 08 November 2017 - 19:11

WR I have always liked that one !

by Centurian on 08 November 2017 - 23:11

You have a hard time stacking your dog because of the difference that you think the dog has for structure and the actual structure the dog does have. People have commented on the postition of the dogs feet - the dog is trying to put the feet , in a manner of speaking , where they feel right. Not right in the sense of ' a stack' due to the discrepancy . Also this is a reason why some say this pic or that pic is better because what they expect to see is not what the dog can give them . And that also is why you can't , in your mind , decide for yourself which picture is best. I am refering to the postion of the dog... but be aware that many many factors contribute to a good picture and a bad picture. Some factors , the background , the surface .. the angle of the surface and the contrast of the surface to the dog and bakground , the light source and /or the direction. Also the turning of the dog's head similarily will not give you the best picture because many times as the dog's head turns , so does with it the torso , which results in in imbalance that the dog feels.


by Hundmutter on 09 November 2017 - 05:11

Agreeing with Centurian about her head positions. Didn't comment above because Pic#1 is worst and we'd already established I hate Pic#1  Tongue Smile.  Can you see how in both 2 & 3 her head seems to be in a line with her body ?  Look closer and note that in Pic#3 the head is 'leaning in' towards your hand & chest a little ?  Taking her slightly off balance.  In #2 she is fully supporting her own head on her own neck, which is better.

Your hand is further round and lower, on her chest, so she isn't tempted to move against your arm for support.

by Hundmutter on 09 November 2017 - 05:11

I agree with him about looking out for surface and shadows, too.  Sunsilver already pointed out that the angle of lighting does nothing to enhance Pic#2.

Any decent book on pet photography can teach you about making sure you stand the animal on a flat surface, watch out for how the light comes into the picture affecting where it will be in shadow, choosing backgrounds for pictures with care, etc.  But I'd guess you were more interested in capturing an acceptable stack than in the finer points of photography, at the present time ?

Remember to check that shadow is not reducing detail on your dog / subject; and be aware of the Handlers' trick that a GSD is better shown stood on a level surface or one going (very) slightly UPhill, rather than setting the dog up on a downward slope with its head consequently looking as though its been lowered, and you won't go all that wrong.

In that last respect, Pic#3 uses the best surface.  But look again at the differences between the continuous rounded flow of her topline, with smooth transition between her Back (proper) and her Croup, compared to the slightly 'hinged' mid-spine effect you are getting in Pic#3.


by Sunsilver on 09 November 2017 - 07:11

Quino vom Laabermoos - stumbled across his pedigree while looking for something else one day - here's a bigger picture!  Oli, your secret love is finally exposed...LOL!




An image

by Centurian on 09 November 2017 - 17:11

I thought to add more..... because I see in the USA the Show declining tremendously through the years and many organizations are bent on' the working ' aspect of the GSD . However , many people i talk with truly do not understand , not just for the Gs but any breed, how critical and important structure is. At shows there used to be quite a large number of knowledgable people as football Stadiums were heavily occupied .
To the Op - you have to understand structure- and I am of the very large impression that you do not understand. When show peole come to me , I tell them that if you are going to show your dog , it is your responsibility to understand and be very knowledgable about structure. This is what I see , via your pictures as it relates to my first post :
In the first picture , even though the head of the dog is turned , that is not the primary factor. What I see is the dog presenting , where it needs more to be. Most often , and I bet with your dog too , just holding the leash and standing behind the dogs , they will naturally go into a stack . In the first picture I see a semblence of this. But the dog turned it's attenion elsewhere.

So the second picture: I think you saw the first and didn't like the presenttion , but you should have studied the dog , and compared that with your knowledge [ or knowledge that you should have ] . F{ BTW , we place the legs and we don't pull them into position ]. But as I wrote , this is not in balance with the dogs structure ... so as a result in the second picture ... you see the dog lean toward the back . This is evident by seeing the front leaning back because the front and the front legs , should be perpendicular to the ground . But they are not perpendicular . This is what I mean by : you tried to put a dog in a place that was not as natural or comfortable for the dog.

The third picture was a better attempt to positon the dog . The front looks better , good .... BUT ...Even though the leg nearer to you is a little off.... look at the topline , the back , the croup .They explain the reason why the leg closest , to you is off, out of sorts. This picture of the dog gives you more insight about the dog's structure , faults and correctness . You stretched the dog out , giving the illlusion the back leg is parallel . But in order to get that you strectched the dog out throwing the leg nearer , closer to you, off. The dog is trying to compenstate with the leg closer to you . And as I write the dog is off in it's feeling of balance.

So I want the general reader to understand - before you even think of stacking your dog .. you need , whether you agree or not , to have a reasonable amount of understanding of GS structure , what it should be and also a clear understanding of what the structure of your dog truly is . First understanding the structure , then placing your dog in a stack position. Don't place the dog into a postion that you think it should look like or try to place the dog into that image . I hope the people that intend to show their dogs pick something up here.

A side note ... I hope the working peolpe do read this and understand that form determines function as well as the function goes hand in hand with form . Working line people really really really need to understand structure just as well as the show line people . Structure is very very very important in both avenues . Structure is critical to the GS canine. Structure is what make a GS a GS and not a Mastiff or Malinois for examples. [ PS , nor does a good Mali have the structure of a GS .. to mix the two is neither a GS nor Mal ] ...

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