Another dog abuse PB Fla.Sheriff s Dept - Page 9

So ..... how many of you have had a GS whereby on the absolute precision perfomance of the dog .. you bet and based your life on the dog's perfromance , ability and execution ? I would find it interesting to know , figurativelyy , out of all the people here that have had some commentary .. how many of you had your lifeon the border of your death , dependent on the perfromance of your dog ?

HMMMM , just, I just wonder the answer to that question. My impression .. just an impression -that perhaps out everybody posting on gthis thread , there is but no more than two on this thread who have. I think ... as an opinion and subjective outlook .. : is it fair to make a judgement , if you have never ever walked in those shoes / been in that situation ?

Swarendu, Look, the results and effects that I saw were NOT negative in reference to health, training and purpose. Now some of you may believe that I don't have the mental capacity to recognize abuse or depravity when I see it, that's okay with me....
I don't do it today, because I have modified so many training concepts to get to point that I only train the way that is most effective for the dog in front of me....that is totally different concept from training 20 dogs at time with limited time frame for completion such as was the case then.
I retain some of all the training concepts I have learned depending on what bests suits the dog.
As for the spectrum of correct training as you folks are trying to enlighten me, again I appreciate learning from you.
As for explaining for novice understanding WHY?, I think that is conundrum being as since this training was so horrific and abusive as I have read, it makes little sense to explain or expound on it. Why would people be interested in understanding these horrific abuse and training concepts. Makes no sense!
Let's let it rest, I really don't wish to engage folks on it, ( not because I can't explain it in depth, trust me) but that it serves no useful purpose. I have been educated on this subject, so no one has to worry that I might secretly be starving dogs when I train, I have been educated.
I will admit I'm working on issues of what becomes me from others....hey but I'm sure they know what's best for me better than I.......lol

I'm a member of an organization that provides free training for police dogs. I've seen my fair share of those "highly trained" dogs that couldn't even find a whole leg in front of them if their life depended on it.

I've also trained with several MWD handlers privately because I've built a working dog club at the base we are stationed at. They were not allowed to use food, they can only use the ball for training. Also, the training was and is rather old school. They actually learned a great deal about modern training techniques and said they wish they could use them because they can see of how much more effective they are. But they are not allowed to. Most of the guys I've trained pirvately with are now out or PCS'ed by now. I've trained with these guys for two years and met most of the MWD's personally. Their training is not impressive and I've wondered a few times how they can rely in theater on those dogs when these dogs can't even accurately perform at a presentation.

Our helper works primarily with Police Dogs. My experience may be from our local Police dogs (3 hour radius) but it's still experience. Sure, they may resort to not feed the dog for two days just because the dog doesn't have the drive, but it still means you've got the wrong dog and if I had a dog that I had to starve for a job where lives depend on it, I'd wash the dog.

It's different in sport. If no lives depend on it, and you are trying to get the most out of the dog because thats the dog you have to work with, sure, go ahead. But when lives are at stake I wouldn't use a dog that I'd have to starve in order to get the most out of the dog. Either they've got the food drive, or they don't. And Food drive is just as important as Hunt, Prey or Defense. But that's just me.

Centurian, almost no one. That's your answer. Very very few have a concept of what it's like when the dog simply HAS to perform or you all die. Without that serious intent, none of the training really means any more than any other method- it's just going through the motions until a real need surfaces.

BE, thanks for the information on MWD and LE dogs today and yesteryear.

You are not the only one that has seen PD's work. There are thousands upon thousands of departments out there. And each of them does it different, has a different level of quality when it comes to Police Dogs. There is no true national standard. How many certifying entities are out there? Just in our State alone there are too many. If there was one standard the dogs would be held to, there probably would be less issues and differences in the quality of training and dogs. On top of that, the quality differs greatly on the resources that are available.

But hey... you are the only one that knows shit, we've learned that by now.

There shall be no other besides the great Cliff.

Centurian, almost no one. That's your answer. Very very few have a concept of what it's like when the dog simply HAS to perform or you all die. Without that serious intent, none of the training really means any more than any other method- it's just going through the motions until a real need surfaces.
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I do. Not in theater but for personal need. If my dog doesn't perform, I could die. I've passed out while driving several times and wasn't allowed to drive for a number of months. I will fall down stairs if I'm not balanced and could break my neck. My life, literally depends on my dog. Sure, not the same as IED's but it's scary enough that I'm avoiding stairs at all costs and if I can't avoid them, I have to rely on my dog to keep me safe.

Laughable, right? But have you ever passed out behind the wheel and woken up in the middle of an intersection so confused you had no idea where you were at and then later realize you could have crashed into a house, car, tree and killed people?

I have a damn good idea about the level of training and generalization it takes for a dog to perform under those circumstances. Why do you think I make no compromises when it comes to SD's and the type of dog it takes to perform as a true SD.

People with disabilities have a pretty darn good idea. We've trained Peanut Allergy dogs for people who were deathly allergic to them. You think that's a joke? Sure, most people out there do a half ass job. But that persons life depends on that dog and if we had to starve that dog to perform, than it would be the wrong dog, period! There is such a huge liability and responsibility behind those dogs that I don't even want to train them because I do not want to be responsible for a dog missing something and someone dying due to the result or lack of training, or maybe the dog folded under pressure or people not following through with the maintenance of the training and then blaming you... People may think of SDs as joke but those who are legitimate, and take it seriously, know exactly whats at stake and the type of training and dog it takes.

But hey, not PD or Military Working Dogs, so it doesn't count...



 

Centurian (and Jenni), interesting.... You mean we common people don't have the right to be enlightened why a dog has to be fed only 4¹/₂ days a week to "teach" ? How would we learn if experienced and knowledgeable people like you decline to share your valuable knowledge?

Or, maybe it was a "Top Secret" military project?!!

Gustav,  you don't do it today. but the dog's picture shared by Kitkat IS today. It isn't even a candidate of any top secret military superdog program. So, what is the justification of sharing an almost 50 years old training technique (which even you don't follow now) to justify this dog's visibly poor health? 

@ BE....whatever...the people who have done this type of training are not speaking up...the ones who have seen and know these type trainers speak the loudest....figure it out!
@ Swarendu....so I don't train LE dogs today, huh....I'm fifty years removed form this type training, huh....Smh! You're right, I am too far removed from this type of training to really understand what happens today.
Like I said, let it go.

@ Swarendu....one more time, I have never been in a training program in which the dogs were of poor health....according to licensed veterinarians who I have more confidence in than the posters here. As for the dog in OP, please tell me how you factually know he is in poor health.?