Another dog abuse PB Fla.Sheriff s Dept - Page 4

Not all 'opportunistic feeders' are already fat dogs. You have turned the argument arse upwards, Bee.
Nobody with any sense denies that there is a tendency among many pet owners to offer too much food, and treats (unconnected to earned rewards) because they somehow see it as 'loving' (just as we probably have all met people who thrust food upon people as a way of showing their visits are wecome !)
We were not discussing those habits, but the question of extreme fasting versus condition in the dog in question.
I was not attempting to 'rationalise' 2-day fasting by saying at least the dog kept thus is unlikely to become obese, because that is simply fact. Underfed dogs burn other body tissue if they can't eat normally. Does not mean I am in favour of such fasting, as the rest of my post above and below that sentence surely indicates only too well.

Actually, you did mention pet dogs not knowing when they were satiated and feeling full as a cause of their obesity and called them "opportunistic feeders", essentially denying the role of hunger in their desire for feeding or being fed. It was the reason you were swayed by Centurian who argued on the validity of a 60 hour fast, not necessarily being a form of abuse, as opposed to my example of my own pet dog with behavior based on actual hunger.

I do know backpeddling when I read it.

Not all 'opportunistic feeders' start off as fat dogs, Bee. You have turned the argument on its arse. 

- I said nothing about being satiated or 'feeling ' full, I referred to being aware they could not be hungry at that time.

Nobody with any sense surely doubts that there are many among pet owners who give their dogs too much food and treats (not as rewards for specific actions) in the fond belief that food = love. I expect we have all met people who push food upon other people in the same way, as their way of making them feel loved and welcome. But we were discussing prolonged fasting, and the treatment of the dog in question.

I was not attempting to 'rationalise' 2 day starvation; I observed that this would result in the dog not getting fat, because that's a fact: if the dog isn't getting adequate amounts of food, its body will burn itself to make up the calories. I am quite sure the whole tone of my post and the sentences above and below the remark about "its unlikely ever to become obese" make it perfectly clear that I was not trying to support the practice.

- whether any other posters were, or not.

 

NB ADDED - Sorry, people: the editing function is giving me grief again at the moment, hence how this turned up as a double post because I thought I had lost it altogether.

Perfectly clear? Your statements above and your statement here, do elicit the sounds of the Twilight Zone theme in my head!

 

Actually I am swayed somewhat towards Centurian's argument; if a dog does not want to eat on some odd days, one should listen to it. It won't die, if its otherwise fit and healthy, if it skips a day ! Unfortunately I find the argument doesn't really work well in reverse; dogs being opportunistic feeders, they will tell you they are "really hungry, Mum" even when you know darn well they can't be. One reason so many pets end up overweight.

The highlighted text clearly shows where you are morphing true "hunger" with a food reward response. I also can't begin to see how you know what percentage of owners owe their motivation and are sure it is correlated to a certain amount of love, or not. 

 

What dog who is healthy chooses odd days not to eat? That is a human constraint!

Your text has no 'highlighted' parts on my screen so I don't know what you are talking about.
'Morphing' ? No, can't see how I am interpreting a dog 'fishing' for extra food as one expecting a food reward for a particular task, I was talking about specific behaviour usually just after mealtimes and sometimes in between meals, relating just around the regular food supply. Displayed by most dogs, not just those in training and in receipt of food rewards.

Once an adult dog is trained to the point I require of it, it is no longer in receipt of REGULAR food rewards for its actions, in any case.


'Swaying towards' agreeing with a part of someone's argument does not automatically signify that one is in complete agreement with the WHOLE of it (though, even if I did, I would be entitled to do so if I so wished and my own experience backed it sufficiently). Or perhaps I should always display a percentage of the amount of stuff in others' posts I am referring to ?

FWIW my one GSD will fast herself for a day. I will put the bowl put down in morning, she will sniff, use her nose as if burying it and walk away. I will offer it to her again at night, same reaction. The next day she will usually lick the bowl clean. She is fed raw (I refrigerate it after I pick it up).

She usually does this once every month or two and has done it her whole life (10 years old).

I can well believe that, Zwei. Many dogs in my own experience have done the same. Perhaps you just have to see a higher than average number of dogs to observe such things.

LOL... burying it might be a clue! My Mojo will walk away from his food bowl if he thinks there is something else of higher food value/desirability in his immediate future possibility. Funniest thing, you can almost see the wheels turning in head, weighing his choices out. He absolutely only eats what is necessary for his health and hunger to be satiated. He also will refuse day old raw. Would have to throw it in the garbage really, before he'd take a bite. Something about the garbage pail seems to age and cure whatever is thrown into it! HUMOR!!!! lol Quite the connoisseur dog palate, my Mojo! Not like Beau who was raised raw as a pup and will clean up any Mojo leftovers.

It isn't numbers Hundmutter, it is observational skills. You do deal with kenneled dogs in your employment, afterall. Strictly limited feeding opportunities? Do you see those dogs choose an odd day to skip eating? And are you saying you spoil your housedogs with treats, hour upon hour? I wouldn't have thought that of you, at all.

My dogs were never encouraged to "fish" for extra food after meals or anytime, so really, that behavior if seen, which I don't, I place squarely on their owners. It really isn't something a dog needs to do at all. Again, it is something learned through their owners.

My dogs have access to food 24/7. I have enough dogs living together that I don't t want any food aggression issues. I find they also eat less this way.

   They get plenty of exercise, aside from our work outs they spend hours running a and wrestling with each other.

  I feed high protein dog food plus a healthy amount of raw beef.

This my 5 month old pupsome probly say he too fat

He eats what ever he wants to eat.

Beefjerky is his reward treat and he isover joyed to do somethingfor it

No need to withhold his food which I feel he is entitled to regardless if hechoosesto sit and stay

( whichby the way he does)

No offense, but that's way too heavy for a pup in my opinion.