What exact this colour is....? - Page 6

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German import daughter of V10 Gondor von Regina Pa
Female for sale

ZW 74, IPO3, DM FREE, VA LABO son..
Stud Dog

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WINNINGWAYS ROCKI'S REMI, OFA H&E, DM CARRIER, GEN
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Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 17 July 2017 - 08:07

Jenn, I think you missed the implication of my question.  Let's suppose that (as you pointed out, bottom p1) because there are quite often dogs which people think are sables, but are actually black & golds without clear definition of their colour pattern, so maybe one of the two parents of the OPs singleton puppy IS actually a, let's call it 'disguised' sable.

Maybe OP only sees him or her or both - cos he writes as though he bred his strange colour puppy - as adults, they both look like they are black & tan. Maybe he didn't see either of these two dogs as puppies themselves.  But he does say: "As there in the pedigree tree for both parents seems like only black & tan almost 8 generarations..."

We are in the hands of the OP for further & better particulars, but he has not returned to this thred.

So we don't know how good his records are, whether they are recorded or remembered, or by how many breeders in succession over the past decade or so, or how experienced those breeders are.

However ... for one parent of this pup to be a (disguised) sable, there must have been at least one sable in each preceeding generation.  As sables almost without exception reveal themselves at, and for a while following, birth, it becomes a bit more stretched than thinking ONE parent may be a 'disguised' sable, to believe that 4 or more of its previous g/gg/ggg. grandparents all escaped being "found out".

 

Now, you also (in PM) suggested 'liver' as a dilute that might explain why this puppy does not look 'blue' to you.  I - like just about everybody else on this thred - am saying it does look like a blue, but if the OP bothers to keep in touch, time will tell.  I have zilch experience of what pups looked like in the nest which grew up into Liver (sometimes known as Chocolate, grrr)

adults, although like Kitkat I have a fair cross-section of cases of blues to refer to, and some of them have looked very 'liverish' to the untrained eyes of the great general public.  So you might well be right.  Adult 'livers' have always looked fairly distinctive to me, so again I think it less likely that what the OP has got is one black & tan and one liver parent - but he could easily have one black & tan and one blue with black & tan pattern as these are relatively common [ - more common than the self-blue animals, at a guess without having fully researched numbers or % in front of me]. IDK re blue sables, as I never had hands on one.

As has been said often before, it IS easy sometimes to miss black & tan pattern Blues, unless they always thoughtfully stand in the right lighting !

 

Next, my opinion on the nose colour question: as far as I (and

many authorities on the GSD breed) know, both dilute colours  (blue and liver) have 'non-black' noses, as do many whites; i.e. the nose is regarded as 'liver'.  Shade of dark or light 'liver' pretty irrelevant. Sub-divisions of such matters seem unnecessarily pedantic. JMO.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 17 July 2017 - 08:07

PS Oh, and that veterinary mistake ? I've had a very clearly grey sable adult male in the vets (no way he could have been described as "black and anything") ...and she was filling in forms for his op, and she looked me in the eye and wrote "Black and tan". At which point I screamed and shot her ... no I didn't, I fell about laughing, then corrected her when she asked why.Cry Smile

And the moral of this story is...don't trust ANYBODY to describe your dogs' colour-patterns accurately, unless they also keep the breed. (& even then, approach with caution !)


Reliya

by Reliya on 17 July 2017 - 22:07

I have a photo of a newborn liver somewhere. Give me a moment to share.

An image

Reliya

by Reliya on 17 July 2017 - 23:07

Liver with colored siblings.

An image

 

Reliya

by Reliya on 17 July 2017 - 23:07

An image

This blue sable puppy looks similar to the OP's puppy, I think.

 

He's the one in the middle.

Hundmutter

by Hundmutter on 18 July 2017 - 07:07

Yeah, I was thinking puppy pics I have seen elsewhere of livers looked as pale as that. I agree, the blue sable pup in the second of Reliya's photos here looks closer to the colour of the original pup - but then the colour of both the blue sable ^ and the 'unknown' OP pup BOTH look 'Blue' to me ...as in both self-blues, & dark black & tan blues (bearing in mind the major coverage of dark colour versus tan points in most B&T puppies still 'in the nest' ...).

And, if it was a Blue Sable, rather than a self- or B&T 'blue', what I have said above about 'disguised' sables in previous generations flying in the face of the OP's statement remains the case.

 


Jenni78

by Jenni78 on 18 July 2017 - 22:07

I understood the implication- but without pedigree it doesn't make much difference. OP seems to pop in and out and still not provide what we actually need. Hoping he returns- I'm really curious to see good pics of this pup.
kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 19 July 2017 - 03:07

Here s a litter of blue blue sable and Isabella pups

not mineAn image

kitkat3478

by kitkat3478 on 19 July 2017 - 03:07

An imagethisiswhattheycall Isabella color

Sunsilver

by Sunsilver on 20 July 2017 - 17:07

What SmileWhat SmileWhat Smile Oookay, I just came across this dog in Ursus v. Batu's pedigree!

It shows how deceiving old, faded photos can be! You'd swear this dog was a liver!  Omg Smile

 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=76-ica-von-der-wienerau



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