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by Sunsilver on 29 July 2017 - 20:07
JonRob, just so you know, I DO crate my dogs when necessary, but what this is describing is abuse, with dogs left in the crates far too long, and only taken out for exercise for a short time. My youngest dog is crated at night, because she likes to chase the cat in the wee hours of the morning. My senior bitch was crated as a puppy when I couldn't supervise her, until I was able to trust her in the house. She loved to chew up carpets, empty the wastebasket, etc. Both dogs still voluntarily go to their crates to relax when they want to.
. No one should have more dogs than they can adequately care for. And as you said above, that number varies from person to person.
by susie on 29 July 2017 - 22:07
Sure, in case the dog is with the family, and not crated in the basement or in the garage...
When I said :"It´s sad there is no rule forbidding to "crate" dogs in the USA, it´s sad there is no rule asking for appropriate kennel size in the USA, and it´s sad there is no rule that dogs have to have the ability to go outside for a certain amount of time/day in the USA ( don´t misunderstand me - there is animal abuse in Germany, too, but our rules make it possible to "get" the bad guys sooner or later ).
You need dogs "covered in feces", or better "dead dogs"..."
Nobody with half a brain doubts there are good reasons for crating dogs once in a while ( f.e. a puppy at night, or in the car ), but there is absolutely no reason to make the crate the "regular home" of a dog - and excactly that´s what a lot of people do. Dogs stacked in crates, in the best case allowed to potty outside ... ( maybe some interaction for a couple of minutes, the rest of the 24 hours/day lying in the crate, not able to move, an endless waiting for the next couple of minutes...
For me that´s massive abuse, sorry.
About the kennel size - did you ever realize that a lot of breeders do own big properties, and nice, well cared for lawn ( no holes from digging, no beaten paths along the fences ), but the dogs are sitting in kennels not much bigger than a blanket.
Off topic: I don´t need to like PETA to dislike animal neglect and abuse.
by JonRob on 29 July 2017 - 22:07
Sunsilver I know you are sane about crates just like you are generally. And I love the pic of your happy belly-up GSD. I am always pleased to see a dog do this because it means the dog feels very content and secure.
Like I said before of course crates can be used abusively just like kennels, closets, rooms, yards, dog grooming places, leashes, buckle collars, harnesses, whatever can be used abusively.
What set me off was the view that crates should be outlawed. But now it looks like the person who posted this sort of misspoke and didn't really mean that.
by Jenni78 on 29 July 2017 - 23:07
by susie on 29 July 2017 - 23:07
by JonRob on 30 July 2017 - 01:07
Susie, your English is light years ahead of my pathetic German. If I posted something in German you would laugh for days. But here's the deal. In America there are people who want to outlaw crates, dog breeding, and buying any dog except a rescue dog. In some parts of the country they have made it illegal not to spay/neuter your dog. Which makes the "shelter" kill rates go up. Plus dogs start showing up with rabies because people won't take their unneutered dogs in for rabies shots because if they do the vets have to turn them in for the crime of having an unneutered dog.
This is why some of us react when we see something that looks like a call to outlaw crates.
My European friends tell me there is less stupidity about dogs in Europe. True?
by kitkat3478 on 30 July 2017 - 02:07
People should not have to have "big brother" looking over their shoulder to treat an animal humanely but unfortunately, there are far to many that do.
There are far to many regulations now. It',s a shame that for far to many animals those regulations and laws go uninforced (puppy mills) and some animal shelters
The thought of dogs stacked on top of each other is sickening and more sickening is puppies kenneled for hours on a daily basis
I see ads for puppies withpups lying on bare wood or plastic swimming pools with no bedding
Talk about lazy and doing the bare minimum
I myself do not like crates. I have used them but I prefer my dogs be with me and live good happy lives
I have seen people put mother dog and puppies into a crate
I,ll tell you with all this rain we have had in NY .my dogs require a whole lot more work. The mud is horrible
I be mopping floors 2 or 3 times a day, brushing dogs nonstop
Of course it would be a lot less work if I crated everyone and let them out for just ,,,5 minuted at a time.
But I like my dogs they deserve better than that
I hate seeing dogs passed around so the owners can make money off them and not have a clue or a care of how they are cared for.
I just can t see having dogs co owned and not be aware or concerned for their well being.
GREED is a terrible thing.
This a video I took today as we went on a hike in the woods
And it is very pleasurable and rewarding
by kitkat3478 on 30 July 2017 - 02:07
by hexe on 30 July 2017 - 03:07
by susie on 30 July 2017 - 10:07
"My European friends tell me there is less stupidity about dogs in Europe. True?"
I don´t think so - in case people would treat animals according to their needs, we wouldn´t need such a lot of regulations ( rules and regulations normally are introduced because of need, not out of boredom ).
And within Europe you have to differ between the single countries - ( historical differences, cultural differences, even within the countries there are local/personal differences )
in countries like Great Britain, Danmark, Sweden, Germay, Austria, Swiss, people tend to take good care of their dogs ( you won´t find free roaming dog packs in these countries, the dogs normally are vaccinated, there are animal rules, not that many shelter dogs ) - sometimes even too much care, dogs treated like children ( an interesting high-end problem... "neurotic" dogs, the modern kind of "stupidity" ).
Spain, Greece, Portugal - somewhere between normality, and lack of interest - in some areas you are able to find homeless dogs on the streets ( countries like Germany tend to "rescue" homeless dogs from those countries )
Countries like Rumania, Serbia, Bulgaria, Hungary - for me a no-go ( I personally know responsible, well caring people out of those countries, but they are the minority ) - "shelters" like Gulags, killed dogs on a regular basis, 1000s of homeless dogs, Germany "rescues" thousands of them year after year - became a big business... ( no comment )
Although not always that easy, I try not to judge about people who either don´t know better, whose culture is different, or don´t have the monetary abilities to do better.
Humans as a whole first and foremost tend to take care for themselves -
poor country = poor dog
rich country = spoiled dog
and at the end ( no matter the country, no matter the money ) it´s always about the single human who takes care. Some homeless tramps take better care of their dog than some rich, successful, people.
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