Coco - Page 4

What a gorgeous dog! Don't worry about pedigrees and breeding. Go out, join your club, and HAVE FUN!

Mr. Darcy, exactly! They were given back to her "due to the high cost" of their care???????????!!!! Disgusting.

Okay, I've had some nice dogs through my hands, too, that were unpapered; including Titch who I have been writing about here recently, even though that was back in the 1960s. He was bred; to a Registered bitch, and not my decision to make, but yes he sired about 30 puppies. Fortunately for the Breed, and for lovers of the breed who would also own and love unregistered specimens, his/their pups were GSDs and looked like GSDs, not like anything else. The whole point of 'purebred' is that that is what the dog is.

I hope that Beth Wotsit was not the 'breeder' you got Coco from. Like others, I found that story and photos sickening. Clearly, however (and much as one could criticise anyone buying anything from such a dog-farmer), even if that is where she came from, in her photograph that you posted Coco looks extremely well-cared for, and as far as one can see from one pic, outwardly very healthy. All credit to you.

Just because this is a pedigree German Shepherd forum, and the database of information supposed to be about purebred examples of the breed, doesn't mean you can't do all the other stuff you talked about when you started posting. The 'chatting' Forums are open to everyone; this Working &Training forum has many members who own and post about a variety of dogs, including GSD-mixes, plus lots of people have e.g. Malis instead of, or in addition to, their Shepherds. So please bring on your brags about her progress, training questions you want answered, working topics you'd like to discuss. And as she has already proved herself photogenic, keep 'em coming, we always love to see members' dogs pictures & vids. Please don't feel you are unwelcome on here and have to run away !

Her face, head and body shape remind me of Fred vom Falkenbruch: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=6030-fred-vom-falkenbruch

and Rolf aus dem Urnenkeller: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=14698-rolf-aus-dem-urnenkeller

Winnal, both those dogs are from the 1950's. Things have changed since then. Here are some current V-rated working line dogs:

 

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=500731-bomber-vom-wolfsheim

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=123666-falk-von-den-wolfen

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=507271-bandit-vom-wolfsheim

And here's a real rarity: a German show line dog that did well in the AKC breed ring:

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=19661-jim-vom-fiemereck

I don't see how that matters, just seeing those two dogs makes up my mind, the most perfect/ideal dog's body/face/head shape in my opinion. I'd take those two dogs over every other slant-back/different proportioned bodies (even with a straight back). Including Lord v Gleisdreieck. In fact I prefer his mother over him in terms of the body proportions (his mother, Blacky, was super long-bodied, reminds me of Coco's mom) in the back-end (his front end is indeed very good, if not the best part of him, and his facial shape, both like Fred's).

 

I personally would've mated a dog like Blacky v Gleisdreieck with one of the two above (they are directly related, the latter picture is the grandfather of Fred also very distant ancestors of the Gleisdreieck line, which apparently could be connected to Coco's line, so I traced her bloodline all the way back through the mom's side, through the DDR line, through the Gleisdreieck line, to the 1950's where I found these two dogs with the EXACT same body shape, now whether or not she's truly related remains a question, but regardless the bodies are literally the same).

 

Just look at other dogs in that time period, even with straight-backs, all the other ones' body proportions are different, those two literally have the EXACT same body/head/face proportions as my girl, you can literally lay the picture over one another and they would fit together.

Two other straight-backs from that period, also related to the two above:

Yet their body/head shape proportions are completely different. In my opinion, those two (Fred and Rolf) are absolutely flawless body proportions through whatever instincts God gave me to think that.

 

I'm only more proud of my dog Coco now. No one can deny that geniune body shape of a top-quality pure GSD from over 60 years ago. You can argue all you want that the standard's changed, but they existed back then, so they are real, it's just a matter of opinion which is better, even if 'officially' one is judged as being better "now". Even the face shape, the high forehead that isn't flat down the nose, but visibly see the ridge from the nose to the head (not sure how to explain that). Even a deep line down the middle of the top of the head is a signature GSD facial feature, almost like they have forehead wrinkles and two distinct hemispheres of the brain that is bulging outward (giant brain). Those two dogs are the most beautiful body proportion and head shape of ALL TIME. Just in my own opinion.

 

I don't really know what you're getting at except that those two dog's are 'no longer standard' as if they became 'obsolete' or something. The way I see it, those two should be the Golden Standard. I know what I'm suggesting is probably considered radical if not possibly taken offensively for today's 'standard', but I make the argument that a true standard is set from the origin/past, and for whatever reason they deviated from what I see as 'rare/perfect' (perfection isn't common, so perhaps the standard skewed towards the more common) proportions, to the much more common current 'standard' backline, and even straight-backs differ in the body proportionality itself. Those two dogs are the most Godblessed beauties I've ever laid my eyes on. Especially Fred, that muscular build just reminds me of Lord v Gleisdreieck except without the slant back. Look at the rectangular muzzle, perfect. Even the coat has the similar stripe down where the chest meets the neck and behind the front legs. Deep-staring, couragous eyes.

If you don't call this the perfect GSD, then I don't know what is:

Btw, Coco has developed somewhat of a forechest now.

 

And don't take my personal opinion on standards too seriously, I'm biased, but even if I didn't have Coco, I would've still argued those two are the most gorgeous GSD's I've seen and it's a shame they were all the way back in 1950's and no longer anymore. And I have grounds for arguing this, because Fred looks literally the same as Lord Gleisdreieck (for those that don't know, a EUROPAMEISTER) on the front end and head shape, the only difference being the slant back.

Just to make it easy to compare:

Needless to say, again, I like Fred's back much better.

I'll ask again--Winnal, is the person referenced in the links I posted the person who bred Coco?

I'd rather not go into details regarding the breeder. I've said enough about the circumstance of the breeder, I am not going to identify anyone. I think it's already been established that going into this, I had no idea about the breeder, and we just looked at the dog itself. I now know exactly how to vet the breeder and make sure they are 'responsible'.

I'm just here to talk about my dog who is perfectly healthy. Now if you argue that she's definitely mixed because of the breeder, I don't know what to say, sure, but DNA will still be the most definite proof. That's still speculation. Good investigative speculation.

It's horrible to see, to say the least, but keep in mind that was over 2 years ago, and also in the article it says they were all in crates because the kennel was under construction because they had just moved. There's just not enough information to make an objective statement, who knows if those malnourished dogs were actually rescues or something? It says a lot of them were perfectly healthy. Of course they only show the worse side. And since then, she's probably learned her lesson/is being watched or whatever. If she is so infamous then how does she get away with fake AKC registered dogs a year after that incident? I digress.

 

I won't comment on whether she was from that breeder, if you already found all that out, you probably know already, so what's the point in asking? Seems like just a confrontational show of negligence. The question is how you found out, if someone released information I sent privately, or somehow you are smart enough to be able to track down the breeder through the pedigree, then what's the question for?
 

Now what I do want to talk about, is what I've been talking about above. So please, I do not see your point.

 

Also, considering if she is running a negligent 'puppy mill' as suggested, then how come the puppy I did or did not find through her was so healthy? As healthy as all of the puppies I saw from 'official' AKC breeders later on? If the breeder is so negligent, why would she go out of her way to breed rabbits for the purpose of natural prey feeding instead of buying cheap dog food? Heck, even I don't do that, and I wish I did/could. Is that supposedly cruel? What about having your dogs hunt wild rabbits?

Winnal, sent you a PM. See upper right corner of the page for your Inbox.

That is a very rambling post.