Just having fun with the puppy - Page 6

I don't get the idea that there are dogs who won't bite unless they are trained to.

dont understand what you are saying here noitsyou, but there is a huge gap between biting and biting

A definition I'm seeing is that a civil dog is one who will bite a human who isn't wearing equipment and a non-civil dog is one who will only bite equipment.

Is this only after training? I mean, a dog who will only bite equipment was trained to only bite equipment. I can't believe that there are dogs, or at least GSDs, who are genetically non-civil and will only target equipment. In other words, civil dogs are born, non-civil dogs are made.

LOL SMH. This is hilarious.

Susie I repeat the question. : So what do you call dog "dog who is capable to bite person with no equipment." Trainers in US I know call it "civil". But to you civil is a dog with some esoteric attitude. So what do you call it?

duke: to me civil as a something a dog has or has not, cannot be trained, or untrained.

Hans : And what is this -... "something"?
"Something" is just about all encompassing description. Can you narrow it down .

@Noitsyou,

I think you were on the right track with the idea that dogs who are called or recognized as civil, are not actually rare.

How many dogs can you point on someone and on command   send them to bite a person and they will do so? Or how many dogs can you put in an area and they will protect it with their teeth. Dog is not civil if you step on his foot and he bites you. Term "civil" is a working dog characteristic. Also I have made clear  that we are talking abut sound dogs which normally would be self evident. Nobody is talking about rabid or injured dog or  screwball sharp shy and fearful dogs and such.  

How many dogs will let a stranger walk up and take a bone from it?

And I doubt there is any dog, without training, that will attack on command.

I still don't see, even with the more specific definition, how civil dogs are rare. If we stick to GSDs, I would hope most, if not all, are territorial to some degree. I would hope that most, if not all, could be trained to bite on command.

I delivered newspapers as a kid and plenty of different breeds were territorial. It's not that rare.

If most dogs were not naturally civil then there wouldn't be much need for dog owners to socialize their dogs or consider additional coverage on their home owner's insurance. No one would ever ask, "does your dog bite?"

noitsyou, clearly you are missing few things,
territorial is not same as civil
dog that bites running child or jogger is not civil
most sportdogs are not civil

well balanced civil dog is hard to find, most dogs bite over prey drive which is not trained behavour , both biting from prey or defence are genetic, and can afterwards be trained/shaped

adog that will bite on command is training, be it preybite or civil,

socialization will not take away civil agression, it might shift the trigger to engage but will not change level of civil agression


@ hans read post again, civil is something a dog has or not, so something is referring to civil,

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/community.read?post=73324-what-is-meant-by-civil-aggression

What about this:

...the level, rather that the presence, of civil aggression should perhaps be the most important factor when deciding a dog's suitability for a task. How high is the civil aggression; so high that the dog will take a bite out of his handler? Or just enough where the dog is quite formidable and can easily learn to make what he thinks is an unprotected bite on a K-9 helper, and later on a crime suspect? It has always been my understanding that the term "civil" is used when a dog will bite a decoy who is not wearing a prey item, such as a visible arm or leg sleeve. Basically, sees the total man as a threat or prey item, rather than an article worn on his body. Add the terms "forward aggression" and "rearward aggression" and it complicates things a bit more. DesertRangers, I understand the term "sharp" to be directly related to the level of civil drive and its controllability in all situations that a dog may face. A "sharp" dog is one who is not hesitant to bite anyone that he sees as a threat, whether real or perceived, and will little provocation. That is the extreme end of forward aggression, and these dogs have a very limited usefulness unless employed in military work or guarding duties. Perhaps someone can add more detail, but that is my understanding. Bob-O

Not so uncommon if there are levels, IMHO