Just having fun with the puppy - Page 2

Black I suppose that you did not read what was written. So go back and try reading that. In addition I like to accustom the puppy to being touched all over while "in play".  This is important because I want the pup or more importantly the maturing dog to be comfortable with body contact. I use the table so that they do not feel pressured as much as if they were on the ground being hovered over. I am also pretty big on certain aspects of training being introduced by me, the owners decoy. I would not anticipate any problems w/o the table but I like baby steps. The table can be used to add pressure and also to reduce pressure depending on how it is used.
I want the puppy to be accustomed to having forward movements while on the table, even if he is as forward as he can go due to the design of the table. When the dog is much more mature I expect this pup or any puppy to handle any stress given appropriately to be countered with the same motion. Same deal when I go to Lowes with the puppy for socialization. I put the puppy in the cart so that people do not hover and crowd the puppy.

I hope that answers your question?

1 Do you realy think the table is necessary this age?

2 Are you the decoy I don,t understand what he is doing why the pup bring in drives with the whip has the pup not enough natural drives?

3 The pup have not enough space to bring a good grip on bite pillow because the
line is very short to move forward so you learn the dog poor grip.

@ 0.49 the dog don,underdand what is going on you steal te equipment an than
you move your hands  to the pup why is that?

@ 1,47 min the dog has te pillow in his mouth why you( or deccoy?) are using the whip? Than the dog is pulling and X is pulling why?

@ 2,19 the result is a poor grip

My observation the dog actually don,t need table its better you work on the ground
so you can and this is important you can better work with the line or leesh.You will get better grips with any good decoy.

I have never used any table training and I never wanna do this maybe I.m oldfashion .
 

Thanks for the feedback. I have so much more to learn.

 I must be too oldchool or oldfashion to understand this kind of training but thanks for your helpfull
explanation.

Civil behaviors at 16 weeks? Civil aggression simply means the dog will bite a person not wearing equipment. If you are seeing a 16 week old puppy showing aggression indicating he wants to bite someone, you are seeing an overly defensive dog that is insecure.

You said you made a defensive gesture for your pup to see but he didn't. Is your pup blind? He saw what you did, but he did not interpret it as a defensive gesture, which is good because why would a handler be trying to elicit a defensive response toward him? Plus, it appears that you can't accomplish what you are trying to do, which is good for your pup's sake. You said no reaction is appropriate for his age and that you have seen pups showing higher levels of civil behavior at 16 weeks, which infers that doing so is not normal. I say it is more than not normal and is abnormal. Are you sure you know what you are doing?

Apple this dog does not see the defensive gesture and that is okay even good because he is working out of confidence. If a puppy responds civilly at even 9 or 10 weeks like my last puppy did that's okay also if its coming from confidence. The last one BTW caused a bloody mess out of the human that he engaged less than one hour out of the academy at 13 months old. They love the crazy dog.
I do not see either reaction at this age as better or worse but as different. When  person works enough dogs they do not have to train cookie cutter stlye but rather train the dog infront of them, and they are all a little different.  Working my own dog defensively has never caused a problem. I know many trainers who have done so without any problem, that's still just a game to the dog.  I understand the cause for concern in ones own dog civilly depending on the quality of the  dog you yourself own, how old the dog was when you took ownership and a few other variables.  This goes back to cookie cutter training.  Some trainer say you MUST NEVER do a certain action, in this case work you dog civilly or in defense (not done in this video) because you will break trust with the dog and the dog will be ruined.  One would have a difficult time concinving the adults who recieved live bites at the prison from Gunther.  But he was trained differently because he was trained with his individual needs and goals in mind, different from cookie cutter.

  I know what civil means, but thank you for breaking it down to me any way. Civil prey and the all important grip (he has the genetically)are the goals in time not my time but the dogs time.

Everything I hoped to achieve wsas achieved.  I pretty much knew how the short session would go from the get go. 

 

really apple, young dogs that show agression are insecure, hmmmm who wrote that book ?

I like the pup, and I don´t think it´s "bad" training.

There are always ways to "do better", but this training doesn´t harm the dog.
The pup is confident, it´s in prey, it`s having fun with its owner ...

I wouldn´t use a whip, but nowadays that´s "normal" for a lot of helpers - and I would use a tug for a while.

The "table" is a good idea for this dog, because in this case the table is only used to make the pup "bigger", not for anything else.

A second person would be nice, sitting with the pup on the table, holding a leash instead of the chain, so there is a better "timing" possible, more active support, but in that case you either need another helper, or you need another experienced handler, the pup is used to - not always that easy...

Right now this "training" overall looks like "normal" training to me.

Here's a few suggestions, take them or leave them but they are meant to help you and your dog.

First of all, take the leash off the tug or use a shorter one when doing this work. The leash makes it harder to control the movement of the tug, and you don't need it - you can make all the prey you want with your body movements and passing the tug back and forth between your hands in this area and with the table. When working the dog outside on a backtie, then the leash is better for this venue.

When you present the tug for a bite, if the dog doesn't get a full grip the first time, then give the dog some slack in the backtie so that it may get a better grip, and do not allow the dog to lie down with the tug, keep the dog on its feet.

Once the dog has "won" the tug, then you can position yourself to support puppy so that he will not lie down with the tug on the ground. Either keeping the pups head up (when he is sitting), by putting your hands under his chin, or keeping the pup standing will prevent pup from "grounding" the tug. The reason for this is because we don't want pup to develop the habit of grounding his "prey" and "killing it" - full grip that stays that way until the out, with calming from the handler. This will help keep the dog from focusing too much on the prey item on the ground, after the out, so that the dog will be more ready to re-direct to the man.

After pup drops the tug, then don't worry about getting other equipment (whip), just concentrate on restarting the session, then getting the tug away so that pup will not re-direct onto tug.     Once pup has let go or dropped the tug, reinforce this with the "out/good out" command.    Also, attracting the dog to you with a little prey movement (or just a "pffffttt" noise) until he barks, then make more pronounced prey movement, until the dog learns that he has to bark to restart session and make you move.    

IMO, the whip is not adding anything to the session, you are not eliciting any "defense" from pup, and I wouldn't expect or want to see this at this age and from the pup towards the owner/handler.

Be reactive to the bark - pup will learn that he has to bark to start the session, and to make you move.

Your pup has potential, and in order to make the most of this then a few modifications to your work will bring out his best.     I'm sure that I left something (or more) out as I find it much harder to describe what I would do than to actually show someone what to do, and I sometimes forget to point something out.

Here is an example of some of the points that I have mentioned. IMO, this pups work and the handlers actions are what I think is great table work for a pup. Unfortunately, we cannot see what the helper is doing in most of the clip, but for reference towards your work the more important points are the handling and the pups grip.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUlPXGaOtnQ&feature=youtu.be