Why are European puppies so much cheaper???? - Page 2

There is nothing cheaper in Germany. I lived four years in the Hockenheim and Speyer area with my wife working sometimes in Heidelberg and the only GSD's I saw were on a leash or tied to a bicycle running along side for exercise. Small dogs were much more common and the locals were not all that excited about Schutzhund from the responses I got. Club fees may be free in Germany but that is not what makes puppies expensive to produce. If you raise the parents and care for them correctly from puppy-hood to their old age that is what costs along with housing them or having a piece of land big enough for several dogs to exercise. Most of the Schutzhund dogs I saw lived in kennels and they were usually separate kennels not on the same property as the owners residence. Where I lived the yards were postage stamp size and people exercised their dogs on farm roads and in the fields between the towns. You could see the next town over from your town in most areas in the Rhine Valley South of Mannheim. Barking dogs were not popular since not many houses had AC and barking dogs at night would have been a problem in residential areas.

Barenfang: "It is also demographics."

I don´t think so, because in the US puppies out of untitled parents aren´t necessarily cheper than titled dogs.
And let´s be honest, the vast majority of breeders/owners isn´t interested in IPO, otherwise there would be a lot more clubs, and you wouldn´t need to travel.

Puppies out of "titled (great)grandparents" often are as expensive as puppies out of titled parents.

"...and let's not talk about how difficult it is to feed your dog raw, or get a decent food."
The vast majority of dogs are fed commercial kibble over here and in the States, I guess there is no difference.

Bubba: "Where I lived the yards were postage stamp size and people exercised their dogs on farm roads and in the fields between the towns. You could see the next town over from your town in most areas in the Rhine Valley South of Mannheim. Barking dogs were not popular since not many houses had AC and barking dogs at night would have been a problem in residential areas. "

Pretty good description of my country, Bubba!

BECAUSE WHEN THEY WERE REVERED, A FEW YEARS AGO, SOME UNSCRUPULOUS BREEDERS, MADE SOME VERY BAD CHOICES TO DEFRAUD US CITIZENS AND THOSE POOR SOLES TALKED ABOUT IT A LOT. I WAS ONE OF THOSE POOR SOLES, AND I AM STILL TALKING ABOUT A FEMALE THAT WAS MISS REPRESENTED, THE PICTURE WAS NOT HER, THE BREEDER LIED, AND NEVER COMPLETED THE BREEDING PROMISED, AND REFUSED TO REFUND THE PRE-PAID BREEDING FEE TOO. I COULD TELL YOU MORE, BUT A LOT OF PEOPLE DO NOT TRUST EUROPEANS ANYMORE, AND THEY ARE ALL PAYING FOR WHAT A FEW TOOK ADVANTAGE OF. IT IS MUCH MORE DIFFICULT TO AFFECT RETRIBUTION ON FOREIGN SOIL THAT DRIVE ACROSS THE STATES AND CONFRONT THE PERSON THAT CHEATED YOU. THOSE ACTS DIRECTLY AFFECTED THE MARKET DEMAND IN EUROPE, & DEMAND DRIVES PRICE!  JUST AS INTEGRITY DRIVES TRUST!

Susie, whether you like it or not, demographics play a huge role in the price of a puppy. I've lived here long enough to know about how expensive Schutzhund truly is in the US. it costs you an arm and a leg and it begins with the fees. Schutzhund is completely and entirely capitalized. So yah... there is a huge difference between Germany and the US.

As for Heidelberg, that's where I lived my last years in Germany and I am not surprised how people are talking about Schutzhund there. I know every single Club out there, from Mannheim to Hockenheim. Back then, training methods were still rather old school. However, that was 6 years ago.

Anyhow, you can't even compare the cost of Schutzhund in Germany to the cost of Schutzhund in the US. Especially since the US is master in capitalizing everything.

As for pups out of untitled parents... again... capitalization! There are "Oldfashioned" puppies that cost more than pups out of Schutzhund dogs. I'm specifically talking about the cost of pups out of Schutzhund dogs.

I'm not sure what grammar has to do with the price of puppies...but yes, the free market is partially causing the inflated prices. If everyone was expected to title their dogs, there wouldn't be the inflation in prices due to marketing and preying on the unknowing public. The fact that in the US we can breed anything without putting any work into it is a factor but the larger factor is that the customers aren't educated enough to demand higher standards. AKC registration, possibly hip health tests is all that most people ask for. It's starting to get better, but for a while, IPO and Schutzhund trained parents actually scared people away from litters rather than drew them to them. This is again just a societal difference and isn't truly due to the fact that breeding isn't controlled in the US.

The majority of dog owners in the United States don't understand a "working dog." See earlier where the idea of a dog living in a kennel was too much for a poster... It's just the way people think in this country...and those same people are willing to pay higher prices for dogs that aren't really worth those price tags. It's also why puppies out of schutzhund titled parents don't cost a lot more than those out of untitled dogs...the majority of the customers don't care about the titles, so why would they compensate you more for them? They can just go and get a GSD puppy down the street for less and love that dog just as much.

 

Because USA customers are global more stupid and go all in that hyping marketing
breeder/ backyard/ puppy mill  breeder stuff.  12months old import PPD  from

Czech a  real tough family protecter  7000 $$$   advertisement like this......

and of course we see only a video from a dog only bite on a IPO sleeve

 

Europe people are more critical and I think the prices here are much more honest for
working dogs. I see in the US a lot of dogs parents not even titled or X rayed
in pedigrees..............asking Hollywood prices.

I

 

Barenfang, I KNOW that training and titling dogs is difficult and expensive in the States, but it´s only difficult and expensive because

1. Most people are not interested in training their dogs - the result: not enough clubs - but the puppies resulting out of untested dogs are still sold for a lot of money
2. The few knowledgeable people ( trainers/handlers ) in your country of choice want to make money out of their knowledge instead of helping newcomers

You know that all the clubs over here only exist because of members willing to work for the club, all these clubs didn´t arise by accident, they were built up by people who love the breed, and to train their dogs. In Germany IPO is a sport, in the US IPO mostly is paid entertainment for a single few.

Demographics? No, desinterest, and no desire to do more than necessary.

I´m pretty sure, that, as soon as working title, show rating, breed survey, and health test wouldn´t be MANDATORY prior to breeding, a lot of our breeders would enter the same road as the US - I am more than glad that over here we are FORCED to train and title our dogs. People are lazy, they don´t tend to do more than necessary.

Susie, good insight. However, not only are clubs few and far between here, but good training helpers are even more scarce. I don't think 'laziness' is a fair description of many owners. Frustration over lack of good trainers is more accurate.
Some peeps will say, go anyway, so what if the decoy doesn't have a clue....but in my opinion, no training is better than bad training.

The usual excuse for not working your dog...can't find good training nearby. If you know what you're doing you can work with most people, or teach others what you need done. Not all the clubs in Germany produce world level dogs, a club level title is still a title and if someone makes themselves out to be knowledgeable enough to breed GSD they should be knowledgeable enough to train and title those dogs to a one, without the need for the worlds greatest "training helper." Most clubs don't have training helpers and are successfully titling dogs year after year. But since no one HAS to title a dog in the US to breed it, it's much easier to make up excuses why they don't do it rather than to just admit they don't care to because no one requires them to.