BSZS GHKLR - Page 7

Different use of the VA title : This was an attempt to make people aware that ALL OF THE VA DOGS are outstanding in the judges view, no matter if VA1 or VA10. People didn´t like it, they want a "champion".

ZW: All of the VA dogs do have a ZW in the 80s, Memphis 76, Fred Rumbachtal even 70 ( still a result out of Esko, carried through Henry, Mark, and Yerom ). I think that´s pretty good.

Progeny groups: Nachkommengruppen NK-Nr. Vater Haarart Anzahl N-001 Victor von Regina Pacis lsth 6 N-002 Pedro vom Langenbungert lsth 10 N-003 Tyson vom Köttersbusch st 10 N-004 Conbhairean Uno st 10 N-005 Caruso vom Frankengold st 11 N-006 Elmo Weisse Agram st 12 N-007 Pippo House of Grumil st 12 N-008 Atos aus Agrigento st 13 N-009 Kimbo v.d. Tempelhoeve st 13 N-010 Hugh vom Eichenplatz st 16 N-011 Etoo aus Wattenscheid st 17 N-012 Groovy di Casa Massarelli st 17 N-013 Gucci vom Elbe-Saale-Winkel st 17 N-014 Mentos vom Osterberger-Land st 17 N-015 Nino von Tronje st 17 N-016 Yuri vom Osterberger-Land st 17 N-017 Count-Ustinov v.d. Ybajo Hoeve st 18 N-018 Arre vom Hühnegrab st 19 N-019 Fred vom Rumbachtal st 19 N-020 Quoran d' Ulmental st 21 N-021 Enosch v. Amasis st 22 N-022 Fight vom Holtkämper Hof st 22 N-023 Duncan vom Messina st 23 N-024 Figo vom Nordteich st 25 N-025 Memphis vom Solebrunnen st 27 N-026 Risco vom Suentelstein st 27 N-027 Djambo vom Fichtenschlag st 28 N-028 Landos vom Quartier Latin st 28 N-029 Fulz di Zenevredo st 29 N-030 Iliano vom Fichtenschlag st 29 N-031 Saabat von Aurelius st 30 N-032 Yankee vom Feuermelder st 30 N-033 Kronos v. Nürburgring st 32 N-034 Pepe vom Kuckucksland st 32 N-035 Schumann von Tronje st 36 N-036 Remo vom Fichtenschlag st 37 N-037 Labo vom Schollweiher st 38 N-038 Willas vom Grafenbrunn st 41 N-039 Yoker vom Pendler st 43 N-040 Omen v. Radhaus st 49 N-041 Leo von der Zenteiche st 51 N-042 Ballack von der Brucknerallee st 58 N-043 Pacco vom Langenbungert st 61 Nachkommen, deren Vater am Decktag keine 2 Jahre alt war, wurden nicht für die Nachkommengruppe berücksichtigt. Stockhaar-NK-Gruppe ab 10 Nachkommen, Langstockhaar-NK-Gruppe ab 5 Nachkommen

I really like the progeny groups, although a lot of people don´t care. This still is the best opportunity to get a feeling about the type, the advantages, and the faults the males pass on to their progeny.

Agreed. Point is there are limitations to what photoshop and or stack can do. You can tell what can be told from a still stack picture and you can not tell what can not be told from it. Seeing a show live is the utmost, videos and pictures are a a valuable portion of the pie for those who couldn't be there in person  

Love the valuable portion of the pie... Beggars can't be choosers... Lol... That's all we'ev got...

Thanks to people like Irina and others on pdb who post pics n vidz...

Disagree. A good chunk of them are photoshopped, even if just subtly. Quoran is. I was hoping we'd get to see some new pics of their stacks, just to compare.

Djambo is my personal favorite of the VA's. He looks like he could actually work. Tend the fields all day... climb through the remains of a rubble pile in search of survivors... etc. A bit long, and his topline has a tinge more curve than I'd like, but overall I see him as very harmonious. He looks like he could stand unstacked without looking broken like so many showlines (both German and American) do. Plus he is darker which I know is shallow of me, but I love. The picture of him on Workingdog.eu is nice as well, and looks a bit more recent (though is also touched up in places). I'd like to see videos of him moving and in protection.

Marlo is nice. Good bitework, after a lot of the SL bitework you see at events like this, I was a bit impressed. Do they give out performance awards at these, and if so who got it? I love his expression. His headshot picture is adorable - he looks so happy I could just hug him. And all the lights are on upstairs. I really dislike his conformation though. Compared to some of the others, he is not bad, but could be better. His middle looks bloated, and he just looks like he was pieced together. But some of that could be his fading and deceptive saddle.

Risco has *decent* conformation, but I do not like how his shoulder area looks enormous, and I also do not like his head at all. And please quit comparing heads like that to Akita's, 'cause I love Akitas. This is definitely not the head of a proper GSD, and is to squished vertically to be an Akitas. I notice a lot of Remo progeny with this head type, and is one reason I cringe a bit when I see him being used so much... Risco doesn't even have Remo, so that really scares me. Is that the type of the future? If this is the case, it's time to switch breeds, 'cause we all know what happens in the SL's eventually effects/leaks into the workingline world.

Anyway, that's just my .02 as a lowly fan of the workinglines. Feel free to sit here and flame my post, just let me grab some marshmallows first!

No flaming dawulf, I do not agree to some of your points, but your post is a valuable one, and lots to think about, thnx

So far Djambo is my favorite too for the same reasons Dawulf has stated.....IMO the only dog I've seen so far that actually looks like he has the athleticism to tend a flock 24/7.  If I could change anything about Djambo it would be to give him a bit less angulation on both ends.  Those Akita-like heads with too much stop will lead to overly long soft palates and restricted airways as has happened in many other working breeds. I have owned and showed Akitas.  "Akita head" is not intended to be a disparaging comment, it's meant to describe a GSD with too much stop, no parallel lines,  a domed "apple skull", too heavy a muzzle.

Most of the other dogs are very impressive to look at, beautiful dogs with outstanding color (assuming they are not painted ) but that's not what I care about personally. I'd like to be able to see them in the flesh. As I've said, when I saw Peik and Chacco it was as if I were seeing 2 different dogs. I liked them both far better in person than on their show photos.

Risco as well as any other GHKLR dog appears a lot more athletic on video and in person compared to the stacked photos. (not just a small difference)

We should rather judge conformation from the bitework, progeny and movement videos.

@Susie IMO a ZW in the 80s is very high for a dog who did/does/will produce progeny in such numbers. I have found a study a while ago, analyzing the direct relation of ZW and HD. It concludes that an ZW of 85 or above already puts a GSD at threat of HD. I have made an ZW below 80 a critical factor for any gsd I purchase, never had any HD/ED in my dogs. IMO if the ZW on especially the VA group would have such a limitation HD could be cut back significantly. Also would this automatically decrease progeny as mating with high ZW females would increase the ZW of the male, leading the owners of males to also be more considering about the females mated to.

Ballack ZW 87

Iliano ZW 87

Pacco ZW 88

Labo ZW 83

Yoker ZW 86

Willas ZW 84

Djambo ZW 89

Yuri ZW 82

Quoran ZW 84

Memphis ZW 76

Fred ZW 70

Risco ZW 89

http://www.tg-tierzucht.de/hzucht/publikation/svzws2.pdf

link to the study concerning ZW. It`s in German, with graphic illustrations