cost of service dog - Page 2

Wherever there is a real need and people get desperate, there will be someone there to exploit. 

I sometimes consider letting my male go to someone who could use him- like a diabetic child, but someone in the house would need to be a competent handler. If they'd let me breed him, I'd love it if he could help some parents sleep better at night knowing they will be awakened if their child's blood sugar drops dangerously low. 

I have several friends who work for a reputable service dog organization. There is a high "cost" to raise and place a service dog, but the handler/client doesn't pay that cost or buy their dog. The costs are offset by donations, fundraising campaigns, etc. The dog is provided at no cost and the handler is not required to fundraise (but is encouraged to campaign to help the next person receive their dog).

The trainers are often working with clients and their dogs for refreshers or if they are having trouble with something. I also know a few puppy raisers and if the puppy is struggling with something, it will go to "boot camp" with a more experienced trainer.

https://www.pawswithacause.org/

To Jenni

My dogs have that ability; my current girl alerted to my cancer, as you all know, her dam alerted to my low blood sugars, & her dam alerted her owner to her thyroid cancer. I haven't heard of any of these abilities in the males, just in the motherlines. I wrote to Penn State about my girls, they are training dogs to alert to ovarian cancers, in the hope that they can isolate what molecules the dogs are smelling.

I wanted to continue this line, but there are genetic issues that would have also been passed along, so I didn't My girl is too old now, for a first litter. Plus, from what the reply from Penn State said, the difficulty that the researchers have is that many dogs who are raised with a family or a person, become very familiar with the normal fluctuations in odors that their people have, & so are very quick to recognize anything that deviates from normal. Whether they are alerting to a particular smell, like a 'cancer' smell or a high or low blood sugar smell, or a pre-seizure aura smell, or just alerting to something is different, not right, maybe dangerous.....that is what they are trying to differentiate. 

Not all dogs can do this, the ones that can are very special, & can be trained to alert to these scents. But it would take raising the dog from a pup, with the affected person & having, I would think, nearly daily sessions with a trainer, like going to physical therapy. A very expensive proposition, & not one that a particular breeder or trainer would reap the benefits of exclusively. It would be a team effort, & the rewards would not be monetary.

jmho, jackie harris

VKGSDS, co-sign your comments regarding Paws With A Cause--they are a terrific organization!  Although I live in a rural area surrounding a rather small town, there are several PWAC teams here, and I can't say enough about the training the dogs and the clients receive, along with the lifetime support the group provides to both. This service dog organization is one that I also feel comfortable supporting, both monetarily and as someplace to refer someone seeking an assistance dog.

jenni78; please do.  There are people out there especially with children that need a dog like that;  as long as he gets along with kids, cats and other dogs, in otherwords, a social animal a younger person could handle or an adult;  all is good.  Good  gooood....  Nan

 

PS:  Some organizations heed a requirement for neutering/spaying;  do not buy that.  They do NOT have to be  neutered or spayed to be in the service world just that they cannot be dog agressive/bitch aggressive to other dogs,  in otherwords no reaction either way if approached by other animals. That is only for safety of any handler;  children of adults and the general public.  Nan

 

PS:  IT IS sometimes hard to predict what an animal would or could do given any situation that is where the extensive socialization comes in.  Nan

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeah...Nan....he needs a handler with some handling skills.  If it were that easy, I'd have done it by now.   He is very reliable! And he does not quit if his alerts are ignored at first.  His former owner, who passed away (NOT from a diabetic issue, FYI) did IPO with him. He loves to train. He is a working dog.  The past 6 months have really really brought out his drive and aggression. He will tolerate what I ask him to tolerate (including being "trained" by my son, lol) but there's no way he's a 24/7 public dog for Joe Blow. What would be perfect would be a capable handler who had a diabetic child that they were waking to check blood sugars. He could sleep with the kid but the adult would have to handle him out in public. He would be too protective of "his" child, I think. That's how his brother is with the autistic child. The parents have to really be on their toes for the safety of outsiders and practice good, competent handling, always aware of how the dog is viewing a situation. Golden Retriever, he is not. 

My mom is diabetic. I offered him to her and she replied "I'd rather die than have a dog." 

While both low and very high blood sugars are problematic for children with type 1 diabetes or folks with type 1.5 (new designation) or folks known as brittle diabetics (my dad was one) lows are much more dangerous and can even be fatal. It's not uncommon for them to occur at night which is why they can go undetected. A situation which has led to a lot of sleepness nights for worried moms. Also a situation which makes them rife for the picking because they are so desperate to get help. And unfortunately as noted on the Dogs4Warriors thread the service dog area is one of the most fertile grounds for for con men and scam artists right now. There was an individual promising diabetic alert dogs ( Siberian's I believe because that's what she bred) that collected money, didn't deliver and when she did they were not even remotely trained dogs. If memory serves she was the one that provide a 12 week old puppy claiming  it was a trained service dog. ARRGH!

My understanding is that diabetic alert dogs are trained used T - shirts from the individual - the shirt was worn during an episode and the sweat is loaded with the chemicals that the low or high produces ( for example ketones MAY be produced by highs). My understanding is that most work has been done detecting the lows since that is the most dangerous situations. The only reports I have seen on high detection have been ancedotal user claims and usually by users who have drunk the kool aid and think that anything the dog does is an alert. By the way as noted earlier we do not currently have a way to train seizure alert dogs since we do not yet understand what they are alerting to. It could be smell or changes in body or face position or even detection of electrical changes in the body (several of my GSD would alert to the landline just before it rang - obviously detecting the electricity). Anyone claiming to be able to train seizure alert  is a fraud. Some dogs come to it naturally and we can reinforce that. We can also train seizure response dogs for behaviors while the seizure is occuring or right after (such as dialing 911) so that is a legimate claim IF done properly.

Re the $25,000 - absolutely, fricking outrageous! The guide dog schools have long been quoting a figure of $20-25,000 as THEIR cost for breeding, raising , training guide dogs  sometimes with vet care for life and always with field reps in place all over the country to do follow ups and problem solving. These are brick and mortar schools with heavy investment in land , buildings, staff and dogs. They often place several HUNDRED dog teams in a year. They have in house breeding programs, puppy raising programs overseen  by trainers, volunteer coordinators etc etc Dogs are puppy raised under a very defined program with exposure to all sorts of conditions and events and must be rock solid in terms of behavior and response to obedience commands under stress. In addition guide dogs must possess and display the trait of intelligence disobedience which can cause a significant drop out rate. In other words for these schools this figure comes not just from the cost of the dog but the cost of the system that produces that dog. Also it is used as a means of informing their donors who support the school and allow the placement of a guide without any charge to the user. So appropriate to them BUT not to these fly by night outfits that are just glorified puppy mills, or using donated dogs or producing a small # of dogs a year. Especially not appropriate when they ask the user to pay for the dog - either outright or under the guise of "fundraising" the amount.. Whenever folks run into one of those situations they need to be doing a whole lot of question asking and digging but most don't bother because a. they are desperate  b. are not familiar with the industry and fail to educate themselves ( ignorance, laziness or some combination thereof) and c. all too ready to believe what we call the Lassie syndrome ( Mom, Billy's down in the well can't you tell just by the way I'm wagging my tail at you). For example one of the ones I hear constantly from people wanting a PTSD dog is for the dog to be trained to take them to a safe place. Hello a dog does not know what a safe place is. He can take you where you tell him to.

JMHO that and 69cents will buy you a cup of coffee.

TIG, when it comes to opinions about service dogs, knowing you've 'walked the walk' I put a much higher value on yours than not even the cost of a cup of coffee.

 

TIG - my thoughts on an alert dog for epileptic seizure is that the dog senses the changes in a person's electrical "field" or energy. Much the same as when a dog is anxious before an electrical storm - they can sense the changes in electrical field or can maybe smell the ozone created by the O3 in the air surrounding strong electrical discharge or charge. Just an educated guess, but it seems that may be why some dogs can anticipate an episode in an epileptic person.