Did any Working Line dogs compete? - Page 4

Agree with Susie on all counts here:club show vs. Sieger show, pulling on a lead, double handling. 

Placing at a Sieger Show is *nothing* like getting a show card at a club or even regional (at least in the USA) show.  My *showline* dog is V rated, KKL1, and a UKC Champion and I do not bother with exhibiting in Sieger Shows.  A lot more is expected as far as ring training and presentation.  When I show my dogs at club level shows, I have always felt they achieved the ratings and even placements they deserve.  Its the same for titling in IPO1 at a club level trial, and participating in the Working Dog Championship, WUSV, AWDF championship, etc.  Same sport, same criteria, but really worlds apart as far as the level of competition. 

Anyway, as far as nice working line studs that are V rated at a SIEGER show, I would recommend Boy von Zorra.  He is getting older but as far as I know, still breeding.  I have seen some recent litters from him.  He got a V rating at the 2009 USCA Sieger Show.  He also earned a V rating at a smaller show and actually placed ahead of other higher placing show line dogs.  I owned a male puppy by him for 2 years.  I no longer own him but he was SG rated twice, at 13 and 18 months (13 months by an SV judge from Germany).  We have not shown him for a V or KKL yet. Jenni on here has used him once or twice, she could tell you more.

When I show my dogs in the SV ring I tend to either hide completely (my male will bark and go nuts the whole time if he sees me running around waving toys, lol), or I just walk alongside my puppies since that is what is expected and because I can.  I also show my dogs in the UKC ring, so they are capable of showing and placing without double handling.  I don't really think either way is better or worse.  Each venue has their own procedures and traditions.  You are not *forced* to double handle dogs in the SV ring.  I've handled my own dog.  If you think it's dumb, don't do it.

VKGSDs, very informative post

Great posts, everyone!! 

Dog1- I'll PM you

Susie- holy cow. I didn't realize the "campaigning" required to show at a Sieger show!!! That's crazy!!

Although, when I volunteered at NASS last year, I sat next to this very nice gentleman. He had 6 dogs in show. He told me he, personally, paid to "import" over 3 German handlers just to show his dogs at this one show. He paid all their travel expenses and ring fees. I asked why and he simply replied..."cause the judge knows the German handlers". 

I had completely forgotten this whole thing until I read your post!!

Ok. I'm not going to a Sieger show!! Haha

That´s wrong, just do it - and you don´t need to "import" german handlers, train your own handlers together with your dog...
In case your dog is worth a V-rating ( or Sg, depending on its age ) your dog will get this rating even on a Siegershow.
You need a good dog and you need a good handler, but "good" doesn´t implement "German".

Yes you do not need a German handler at a USA Sieger show.  Your dog does need the right training and preparation though.  I've shown one dog in a Sieger Show and used an American breder of WGSL dogs that I feel has breed dogs with stellar temperaments and impressive bitework.  She was already at the show with her kennel so I just paid her for the class like I would for a club level show. Some breeders do "import" handlers and pay all their expenses but they tend to be people who are breeding a dozen litters a year and selling puppies for $2500+. I'm not saying that's inherently bad, but their dogs are bringing in $$$ that they can turn around and put back into their program by hiring whichever handlers they like.

I've shown pure workingline dogs in conformation. I firmly believe that "working line" doesn't justify breeding ugly dogs; just as "showline" should not exclude dogs with working drives. 

I've had WL dogs that have earned high SGs, and V-ratings before. The hardest part is finding a breeder who doesn't scorn whichever line it is they don't prefer. I find the division between "workingline" and "showline" people does nothing but harm the breed overall. 

IMO it depends on the judge and how well you want it to place as to whether or not a German handler is needed in the US. 

Blitzen, although you are right, the US needs to "free themselves" from the German bred dogs and the German handlers and trainers.
A "normal" dog doesn´t need a German handler, it doesn´t matter if this dogs finishes V10 or V15, for the owner the V-rating ( SG, whatever ) should be important. This kind of dogs are the best training tool for unexperienced handlers. Handling is like IPO training, you mostly learn by doing.
And handling on a show is fun, training for a show even more. Besides that it´s better to handle a dog on a show you trained beforehand than handling a strange dog the handler knows nothing about...The best performing dogs are well trained dogs with a handler they are used to. The handler needs to know about the perfect speed, the perfect stack...every dog is different.

What did I try to say?

You ( the North Americans, nobody in special ) give up before you even started something. You´ll never have success in breeding/trialing/showing by thinking like this, you´ll always be the small German branch office, German handlers and trainers happy about paid holidays, breeders happy to be able to sell their sorted out dogs, whereas promising boared American puppies are sitting in your own yard

Susie, people in the US won't show their own GSD's at AKC shows either. They are convinced they must have a pro handler and under most AKC  judges that's true. Most I know want as much bang for their buck as they can get so they'd rather pay a pro to get the points or a higher V rating than not. 

I´m not talking about showing ones own dog, I´m talking about teams.
Every GSD owner who wants to participate in a show needs a handler, just train together, help each other out, and learn.
It´s not rocket science...