Some of the people who call themselves Christian are not Christians.. that is plain to see by actions, posts, and by their lives.

I can see already this posted thread is not gonna achieve any thing valid..\

In the BIBLE , there are many warnings about scoffers, despisers,scorners,mockers, and what will happen to those who choose to act in that manner..

a christian does not take scripture out of context from either the Old Testament or the New Testament and post it in vile reviling of Jesus Christ either..THE punishment of the wicked comes quickly and each person alive has a choice either to Serve GOD or revile him..free will, free choice and the knowledge is yours to find and read and gain. We do not live under the Old Testament we live in the New Testament and has nothing to do with NEW AGE>.that is not serving the Lord. If you taut the Lord  and know nothing of HIM or his Word , you are doing it in Vain..It serves no purpose.

Evil Associations, worldly success, Shallowness, emptiness of Life, Absence of Spiritual leaders , Lack of Spiritual Insight, and Love of the World are all indications of those who want to Shout to the rooftop about the GOD they know nothing about.

Those that want to defile others about their love of Jesus Christ and GOD , our Heavenly Father will only reap what is written in  James 3:6 just one of many scripture explaining the choice they take.

Read the 3rd chapter of 2 Peter   Warnings against scoffers..   2 Peter 2 chapter deals with those of  False Teachers ...which shows that many who claim to be christians are not..and they teach false facts and doctrine. No one can just take a scripture here and one there and especially if they have no knowledge of how the BIBLE was put together under what progression of time and manner and how it all goes together from beginning to end...yes, we all know there are some missing books having been found...but they do not change any facts or change any of the context.   Man has changed things to fit his evil...\

And you cannot learn it on a dog forum in Off Topic.

YR

Limbaugh Puts Truth on Trial

   In our skeptical world, many people question truth and faith. David Limbaugh sets out to passionately dispel any doubt concerning the truth of the gospels. In his excellent new book, Limbaugh offers skeptics and believers alike a unique opportunity to bring their questions to court and see how the gospel messages hold up on triaL.

New York Timesbestselling author David Limbaugh relies upon his legal expertise to help readers achieve a greater understanding for the reality of the gospel message. Limbaugh makes a convincing case for taking the gospel message as effective evidence that positively supports the life and work of Jesus Christ. As Limbaugh dives into scrutinizing the gospels, skeptics will be convinced and believers encouraged.

 

With his lifetime of legal expertise, acting as both an attorney and former professor of law - Limbaugh offers readers a new way to approach the canonical gospels with the same level of scrutiny he would apply to any legal document. Find out what happens when he asks all the necessary questions about the story of Jesus told through the gospel messages of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. The book also offers a personal look inside Limbaugh's faith journey as he shares what changed him from a determined skeptic to devout Christian.

With conviction and sincerity, Limbaugh concludes that the words found in the bible - cherished by Christians for centuries— do indeed pass his through examination—and thereby affirms Christian faith, spirituality, and tradition.

 

You can order this book off internet and read just one persons conviction that he chose to become a Christian.

YR, what qualifies you to be judge of who is a real xian, who is not, who is evil and who is not, who is going to heaven who is not, what is the correct interpretation of the bible what is not?

apart from  your own sense of YR is right and anyone who questions or disagrees is wrong?

this is a long running hypothesis of the source of your "independent" gospels.

 

 

and skip the lawyer - what scientific and historical evidence you got for jesus, the church has bben trying for 2000 years to find a scraap of reliable evidence outside the bible;

 

links attached in text;

At the same time, these scholars acknowledge that many Bible stories like the virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, and women at the tomb borrow and rework mythic themes that were common in the Ancient Near East, much the way that screenwriters base new movies on old familiar tropes or plot elements. In this view, a “historical Jesus” became mythologized.

For over 200 years, a wide ranging array of theologians and historians—most of them Christian—analyzed ancient texts, both those that made it into the Bible and those that didn’t, in attempts to excavate the man behind the myth.  Several current or recent bestsellers take this approach, distilling the scholarship for a popular audience. Familiar titles include Zealot by Reza Aslan and  How Jesus Became God by Bart Ehrman. 

But other scholars believe that the gospel stories are actually “historicized mythology.”  In this view, those ancient mythic templates are themselves the kernel. They got filled in with names, places and other real world details as early sects of Jesus worship attempted to understand and defend the devotional traditions they had received.

The notion that Jesus never existed is a minority position.  Of course it is! says David Fitzgerald, author of Nailed: Ten Christian Myths That Show Jesus Never Existed at All . For centuries all serious scholars of Christianity were Christians themselves, and modern secular scholars lean heavily on the groundwork that they laid in collecting, preserving, and analyzing ancient texts. Even today most secular scholars come out of a religious background, and many operate by default under historical presumptions of their former faith.

Fitzgerald is an atheist speaker and writer, popular with secular students and community groups. The internet phenom, Zeitgeist the Movie introduced millions to some of the mythic roots of Christianity. But Zeitgeist and similar works contain known errors and oversimplifications that undermine their credibility. Fitzgerald seeks to correct that by giving young people interesting, accessible information that is grounded in accountable scholarship.

More academic arguments in support of the Jesus Myth theory can be found in the writings of Richard Carrier and Robert Price. Carrier, who has a Ph.D. in ancient history uses the tools of his trade to show, among other things, how Christianity might have gotten off the ground without a miracle. Price, by contrast, writes from the perspective of a theologian whose biblical scholarship ultimately formed the basis for his skepticism. It is interesting to note that some of the harshest debunkers of fringe Jesus myth theories like those from Zeitgeist or Joseph Atwill (who tries to argue that the Romans invented Jesus) are from serious Mythicists like Fitzgerald, Carrier and Price.

The arguments on both sides of this question—mythologized history or historicized mythology—fill volumes, and if anything the debate seems to be heating up rather than resolving. A growing number of scholars are openly questioning or actively arguing against Jesus’ historicity. Since many people, both Christian and not, find it surprising that this debate even exists—that credible scholars might think Jesus never existed—here are some of the key points that keep the doubts alive:

1. No first century secular evidence whatsoever exists to support the actuality of Yeshua ben Yosef.  In the words of Bart Ehrman (who himself thinks the Jesus stories were built on a historical kernel): “What sorts of things do pagan authors from the time of Jesus have to say about him? Nothing. As odd as it may seem, there is no mention of Jesus at all by any of his pagan contemporaries. There are no birth records, no trial transcripts, no death certificates; there are no expressions of interest, no heated slanders, no passing references – nothing. In fact, if we broaden our field of concern to the years after his death – even if we include the entire first century of the Common Era – there is not so much as a solitary reference to Jesus in any non-Christian, non-Jewish source of any kind. I should stress that we do have a large number of documents from the time – the writings of poets, philosophers, historians, scientists, and government officials, for example, not to mention the large collection of surviving inscriptions on stone and private letters and legal documents on papyrus. In none of this vast array of surviving writings is Jesus’ name ever so much as mentioned.” (pp. 56-57)

2. The earliest New Testament writers seem ignorant of the details of Jesus’ life, which become more crystalized in later texts. Paul seems unaware of any virgin birth, for example. No wise men, no star in the east, no miracles. Historians have long puzzled over the “Silence of Paul” on the most basic biographical facts and teachings of Jesus. Paul fails to cite Jesus’ authority precisely when it would make his case. What’s more, he never calls the twelve apostles Jesus’ disciples; in fact, he never says Jesus HAD disciples –or a ministry, or did miracles, or gave teachings. He virtually refuses to disclose any other biographical detail, and the few cryptic hints he offers aren’t just vague, but contradict the gospels. The leaders of the early Christian movement in Jerusalem like Peter and James are supposedly Jesus’ own followers and family; but Paul dismisses them as nobodies and repeatedly opposes them for not being true Christians!

Liberal theologian Marcus Borg suggests that people read the books of the New Testament in chronological order to see how early Christianity unfolded.  “Placing the Gospels after Paul makes it clear that as written documents they are not the source of early Christianity but its product. The Gospel — the good news — of and about Jesus existed before the Gospels. They are the products of early Christian communities several decades after Jesus’ historical life and tell us how those communities saw his significance in their historical context.”

3. Even the New Testament stories don’t claim to be first-hand accounts. We now know that the four gospels were assigned the names of the apostles Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, not written by them. To make matter sketchier, the name designations happened sometime in second century, around 100 years or more after Christianity supposedly began. For a variety of reasons, the practice of pseudonymous writing was common at the time and many contemporary documents are “signed” by famous figures.  The same is true of the New Testament epistles except for a handful of letters from Paul (6 out of 13) which are broadly thought to be genuine.  But even the gospel stories don’t actually say, “I was there.” Rather, they claim the existence of other witnesses, a phenomenon familiar to anyone who has heard the phrase, my aunt knew someone who . . . .

4. The gospels, our only accounts of a historical Jesus, contradict each other. If you think you know the Jesus story pretty well, I suggest that you pause at this point to test yourself with the 20 question quiz at ExChristian.net.

The gospel of Mark is thought to be the earliest existing “life of Jesus,” and linguistic analysis suggests that Luke and Matthew both simply reworked Mark and added their own corrections and new material. But they contradict each other and, to an even greater degree contradict the much later gospel of John, because they were written with different objectives for different audiences. The incompatible Easter stories offer one example of how much the stories disagree.

5. Modern scholars who claim to have uncovered the real historical Jesus depict wildly different persons.  They include a cynic philosopher, charismatic Hasid, liberal Pharisee, conservative rabbi, Zealot revolutionary, nonviolent pacifist to borrow from a much longer list assembled by Price. In his words (pp. 15-16), “The historical Jesus (if there was one) might well have been a messianic king, or a progressive Pharisee, or a Galilean shaman, or a magus, or a Hellenistic sage.  But he cannot very well have been all of them at the same time.”  John Dominic Crossan of the Jesus Seminar grumbles that “the stunning diversity is an academic embarrassment.”

For David Fitzgerald, these issues and more lead to a conclusion that he finds inescapable:

Jesus appears to be an effect, not a cause, of Christianity. Paul and the rest of the first generation of Christians searched the Septuagint translation of Hebrew scriptures to create a Mystery Faith for the Jews, complete with pagan rituals like a Lord’s Supper, Gnostic terms in his letters, and a personal savior god to rival those in their neighbors’ longstanding Egyptian, Persian, Hellenistic and Roman traditions.

In a soon-to-be-released follow up to Nailed, entitled Jesus: Mything in Action, Fitzgerald argues that the many competing versions proposed by secular scholars are just as problematic as any “Jesus of Faith:” Even if one accepts that there was a real Jesus of Nazareth, the question has little practical meaning: Regardless of whether or not a first century rabbi called Yeshua ben Yosef lived, the “historical Jesus” figures so patiently excavated and re-assembled by secular scholars are themselves fictions.

We may never know for certain what put Christian history in motion. Only time (or perhaps time travel) will tell.

 

 

I do not need to be the judge,..there is no judge of you or anyone else..You prove your own desire to scoff, defile and mock someone elses belief.. Case Closed

You are what your life depicts..You are what you say and do and no one is judging anyone..THE life you live is either or..You do not believe in Jesus Christ so you are not a christian.. I did not address you destination after death..so do not put words in my post.

You do not need  to put down my post. My statement is self explanatory. THE devil tried to disprove Jesus existance also..AS I stated you can keep on scoffing and make fun of everything I post but it won't change my belief in the BIBLE>  MANY a man has tried to contradict it and publish mistruths just like the Saducees and Pharisees did.

 

Hope you have a great day and remember  Jesus Loves You no matter who you are...

 

YR - how old is the Earth ?

HM: Your question is not gonna be answered in  a short post...so I will just give you a synopsis...

THE BIBLE does not make an age of the earth statement contrary to what some people want to argue about.

It is a very lengthy study of Hebrew, science and the language of the written word as put into the scriptures and the whole testament by books has to be studied carefully showing the length of days, length of growth described as to how GOD made the vegetation and the animals by using a scale of growth..then the study of length of time comes into play...science comes into play also....after you know the Hebrew and Aramaic language that is how we make determination of how GOD did his creation.

The Bible establishes a minimum date for the creation of human beings on the sixth "day" of ~50,000 years ago. However, because the Bible clearly indicates the length of the previous five creation "days," are longer than ordinary solar days, we must look to God's creation to establish an accurate date for the length of the days and the age of the earth. The age of the earth is most accurately established by examining the age of its rocks, along with the age of rocks from the moon and meteorites, which were formed around the same time. All these measurements indicate that the earth is just over 4.5 billion years old. Measurement of the ages of some of earth's features establish a minimum age for those features that is in the hundred of thousands to millions of years. Since most of the measurement merely involve the counting of annual layers, they are unlikely to be grossly inaccurate. Therefore, the young earth paradigm that the earth is merely 6,000 years old is falsified by both the Bible and science. The vast ages of the earth does not diminish the power and glory of God, but establishes that God thought that preparing the earth for human habitation was worth the billion of years of preparation. Since God is not subject to the temporal dimension of this universe, it all happened "instantly" for Him.

"But now ask the beasts, and let them teach you; And the birds of the heavens, and let them tell you. "Or speak to the earth, and let it teach you; And let the fish of the sea declare to you. "Who among all these does not know That the hand of the LORD has done this, In whose hand is the life of every living thing, And the breath of all mankind? "Does not the ear test words, As the palate tastes its food? Job 12 : 7-11

 

I could offer hours of facts and BIBLE facts to show lots of things to know about hours, days and times , during the time believed to be in GOD's time table with conjunction to what Jewish writings show to be the time of many different happenings from day one to now...THERE are may studies , some good some false and some just   theories.

THERE are false teachings by Churches, religious groups and many who just argue and do not search for the questions by taking years to study it.   GOD will reveal all the mysteries of what he has created and what he has set into motion.

Interesting conversations can be had on all this subject if only it were able to be done but not on a dog forum ..

YR

YR, the forum where it is discussed does not matter, more on who we are discussing it with I'd think.  It is just a viciious circle of arguments caused by those who really don't care what the Bible says, but their only purpose is to ridicule and make fun of it. 

However, I stil lbelieve other's who are reading, (discounting the athiest few who are solidified in their views) will read, learn and see the Bibllical truth, when everything starts to hit the fan.  Possibly as soon as this fall.

How old the earth is, is not an important enough issue for me to discuss let alone argue.  That will all be made known when we meet Jesus face to face.
 

For instance, THIS is Bible prophecy coming true!   Kapow!

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/iran-supreme-leader-prepare-for-new-world-order-2014-9

 

Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei warns that the “new world order is emerging” and that “Iran will have a strong role in creating”

 

I find it amusing that atheists on here spend so much time trying to disprove something they don’t even believe in...

If this is your one and only life, if this is all you get to have before you rot away and cease to exist, why on earth would you want to spend it on here debating God which you don’t believe in….if this was one and only life you got, should you not be making it worth living?

So every one who is not a christian is labeled an atheist? Christians can be very adamant and violent when it comes to their identity, Christianity. So can a lot of other religious sects, be violent and abrasive when it comes to their identity.
It seems that vk has studied the bible in depth and is trying to learn, no different than Christians learning about evolution and deciding to believe the evidence or not. But they either simply take someone's word as to why evolution should be rejected, or, they learned about it and came to an educated decision on their own.