What's your opinion on DM carriers - Page 8

I have no problem with using an dog that has tested as a carrier or even as at risk, as long as the dog hit the rest of the check marks. DM testing is just one tool in a toolbox of things available to help choose the best breeding dogs possible. 

With DM being more in the spotlight now, I've noticed many people, both those qualified & not, are quick to label many conditions as being DM. When there are other symptoms, syndromes, diseases, etc that are similiar to DM but much more likely. It's gets a bit tiresome to see DM being used as the latest catch-all for any type of spine/hind end issues, regardless of testing & diagnostics.

Reminds of the DR's that label things with Chronic Fatigue or Fibromyalgia just because they aren't sure what it really may be......

people should educate themselves first and secondly use the brain for thinking and decisionmaking and not use the hart for that

tons of people will not buy a pup from a DM carrier bred to a DM clear partner, but most of these people have no problem to buy from untested parents

I recently bred a  litter from a carrier female with a clear male, several pups were  tested on buyers request and all are clear,

also before testing came available  I bred to a male that was  recently tested and is a carrier, all his tested offspring is also clear

till now didnot see one carrier or worse coming from litter od carrier

certainly that will be different if you breed carrier to carrier         or carrier to untested

do your homework and use your brain

When you breed a carrier to a clear odds are that about 1/2 of the litter will test as carriers, the other 1/2 clear. Those odds are based on a much higher number of dogs than is produced in any single litter.  It's like tossing a coin 100 times; odds are there will be 50 heads, 50 tails but the first 10 or more tosses could result in all heads or all tails. There will seldom be a litter where exactly 50% will be carriers, 50% clear and a litter could be 100% of either. Carriers cannot produce at risks unless they are bred to another carrier or an at risk. At risks can only produce more at risks if bred to a carrier or another at risk. IMO if an at risk is a quality dog it would be foolish to withdraw it from breeding. Tests for simple recessive conditions are not meant to eliminate any dogs from the breeding pool. The purpose is to avoid producing more at risks.

The OFA data base can provide some intresting information, especially if you know dogs that tested postive for DM with an autopsy. I know of 3 that have ancestors listed on that database and it's very easy to trace the gene through their pedigrees. For example, if there's a popular dog that hasn't been tested or reported that has never produced a clear, he is either a carrier or an at risk  himself and depending on the number of progeny, he is/was most likely at risk.  BTW of the 3 DM dogs I know about, 2 tested at risk with the OFA DNA test, the other wasn't tested. A friend's GSD had problems at a young age that suggested DM. He was tested using the Flash test that said he was curently effected; the OFA test said he was a carrier. It turned out he had some serious spinal issues that requred some extensive surgery. Now years later he is doing well.

I can't argue that the form of DM tested for with the current DM test will detect the type of DM specific to the GSD. The jury is still out on that until more owners or DM effected GSD have them autopsied and tested. If 90% or more of those dogs test at risk then it's going to be pretty hard to argue that - I don't test because I don't believe that the test is accurate for the breed. So far I myself have not seen any proof it's not and have only heard anecdotal examples of dogs that tested as normals or as carriers developing DM. As far as I know, none of those dogs were autopsied, the only true way of diagnosing DM. GSD's are prone to other diseases that mimic DM. For now I'd choose to err on the side of caution, test my breeding dogs and use that information accordingly. I'd use a carrier and I'd use an at risk but only with a normal. If it turns out to not be a test that identifies all carriers of the GSD DM, no harm done. If it is the correct test, then ignoring the results or not testing at all will have caused a lot of harm.

blitzen, I dont care for odds but do care for facts, fact is that I have many DM clear dogs out of a carrier parent , so would say it is no problem to use them for breeding 

The answer may be to test your litters;  you can do so as early as 4 weeks.  It only took my results about 10 days to come back and got e-mail at about 3 or 4 days after they received saliva test kits;  snail mail followed in about 14 days.  So if you test litters early on there is plenty of time to test complete litter.  BOL   Nan

I agee with you Duke, just saying that if every dog from every litter out of a carrier x clear is tested, there are going to be approximately 1/2 clear, 1/2 carriers. My current female is a carrier. She was bred before she was tested. We presume the sire was clear based on the results of the testing of his progeny, all tested clear from several different females, one of which was a carrier. It was a frozen semen litter. She had 4 puppies, 2 survived and both are carriers. One of those dogs has been bred to a clear, 6 pups, 4 clear, 2 carriers. It evens itself out over the long run.

I think it's a shame that the other lab that tests for DM doesn't maintain a database that can be accessed on the net. As it is, there is no way to substantiate the claim that a dog has been tested and the results.

Blitzen,

If I remember correctly ( I could be wrong or VERY tired...lol. Damn earth quake and after shocks keep waking me up!) but OFA will recognize the test results from Vet DNA center as they use the same lab that OFA does. However, OFA will not recognize Animal Genetics as they use a different test lab.

At least this is what I remeber OFA saying when I talked to them.

I think that's right, JYL. I heard that OFA will publish the results in their database for a fee of around $30.00. If breeders want their dogs' results to be a matter of public record, then it would be less expensive and less trouble to use the OFA in the first place.