What do Christians folks think about NWO ?? - Page 3

Are you calling gods word poop? the bible orders the rape and murder of whole towns..... read your bible. here is a challenge survey all convicted rapists in the US and see how many are xtians and how many have a PHd in evolution. that will prove yr theory. go on do it get the EVIDENCE. Bwahaha.

God Did Not Condone Rape

by Kyle Butt, M.A.


Militant atheists of the 21st century delight in accusing God of condoning the most heinous immoralities. They insist that the God of the Bible, especially of the Old Testament, was a murderous villain guilty of far worse than His human subjects. Richard Dawkins accused God of being a “misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully” (2006, p. 31).

One attempt that has been made to bolster these unfounded accusations is to suggest that in the Old Testament God condoned rape. Dan Barker commented: “If God told you to rape someone, would you do it? Some Christians, ignorant of biblical injunctions to rape, might answer, ‘God would never ask me to do that’” (Barker, 1992, p. 331, emp. added). If the honest truth seeker were to ask to see the “biblical injunctions to rape,” he would be struck by the fact that no such injunctions exist.

The passage that is most often used to “prove” that God condones rape is Numbers 31:25-40. In this passage, the young women who were taken captive after Moses destroyed the Midianites were divided between the Israelites and the priests. The priests were given responsibility for 32 of the women. Skeptics often suggest that these women were supplied so that the priests could abuse them sexually and rape them. But nothing could be further from the truth. The skeptic errs greatly in this regard either due to his ignorance of God’s instructions or willful dishonesty.

In Deuteronomy 21:10-14, Moses specifically stated what was to be done with female captives:


When you go out to war...and you see among the captives a beautiful woman, and desire her and would take her for your wife, then you shall bring her home to your house, and she shall shave her head and trim her nails. She shall put off the clothes of her captivity, remain in your house, and mourn her father and her mother a full month; after that you may go in to her and be her husband, and she shall be your wife (emp. added).

It is important to understand that God has never condoned any type of sexual activity outside of a lawful marriage. The only way that an Israelite would be morally justified in having sexual intercourse with a female captive was if he made her his wife, granting to her the rights and privileges due to a wife. Notice that the Israelite male could not “go in to her” (a euphemism for sexual intercourse) until she had observed a period of mourning and cleansing, and he could only “go in to her” with the intent of being her husband.

When the skeptics’ allegations about God condoning rape are demolished by the very clear instructions in Deuteronomy 21, the attack is usually shifted, and God is accused of being unjust for allowing war prisoners or slavery of any kind, regardless of whether or not rape was permitted. While these allegations about slavery have been dealt with decisively in other places (Butt, 2005a), it is important not to lose sight of the fact that shifting the argument to slavery is a red herring to draw attention away from the original accusation that God condoned rape.

For the skeptic to imply that God condoned rape, using Numbers 31, without mentioning Moses’ instructions in Deuteronomy 21, is unconscionable. It is simply another instance of dishonest propaganda designed to discredit God and the Bible. The irony of the skeptics’ position is that if atheism is true, the skeptic has no grounds upon which to claim that rape is morally wrong (Butt, 2005b). In fact, in my debate with Dan Barker, Barker admitted that fact, and stated that under certain circumstances, rape would be a moral obligation (Butt and Barker, 2009).

In reality, God’s ways and actions have always been fair, equitable, and just. But the errant thinking and self-contradiction of the skeptical worldview continues to show itself to be unjust in its criticism of God, and immoral in its practical application.

Home Objections Answered For Skeptics Search Contact Me

Moses and the Midianites
Numbers 31:7-18
They fought against Midian, as the LORD commanded Moses, and killed every man. Among their victims were Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur and Reba - the five kings of Midian. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. The Israelites captured the Midianite women and children and took all the Midianite herds, flocks and goods as plunder. They burned all the towns where the Midianites had settled, as well as all their camps. They took all the plunder and spoils, including the people and animals, and brought the captives, spoils and plunder to Moses and Eleazar the priest and the Israelite assembly at their camp on the plains of Moab, by the Jordan across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest and all the leaders of the community went to meet them outside the camp. Moses was angry with the officers of the army - the commanders of thousands and commanders of hundreds - who returned from the battle.

"Have you allowed all the women to live?" he asked them. "They were the ones who followed Balaam's advice and were the means of turning the Israelites away from the LORD in what happened at Peor, so that a plague struck the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man."


Weren't the virgin women raped?
There are two parts to this objection: did God instruct or permit the soldiers to rape the women, and did the soldiers actually rape them?

It's clear that God didn't intend for the soldiers to rape the women, but rather to take them captive. The law God had given to the Israelites condemned rape, in some cases punishing it with death (Dt 22:25-27). Also, immediately following the command to spare the virgin women, the soldiers were instructed to purify themselves and their captives (31:19), and rape (or consensual intercourse) would have violated this command (Lev 15:16-18). In the rest of the chapter, the women are usually referred to as people (using the masculine adam), not women or virgins, underscoring the notion that they were seen as captives rather than sexual objects.1

It's theoretically possible that some of the soldiers raped the women, but given the circumstances it seems very unlikely. The soldiers would have known that rape was a violation of both the law and the instruction to purify themselves, as shown above; they had also seen God punish such violations with death during their travels in the desert. In fact, they had recently experienced a plague and executions resulting from their relations with Midianite women (25:1-9), as Moses reminded them. At that time, all those who had sexual relations with the Midianites were killed. It's highly implausible that the soldiers would have wanted to have anything to do with the Midianite women given this context.

So what did happen to the women (and children)? God gave the Israelites permission to marry women they took captive, but they were to treat their wives with respect: the women were to have time to mourn their families first, and were not to be mistreated (Dt 21:10-14). Those who didn't marry would have become servants, but there were rules against mistreating them as well (Ex 21:26-27, Dt 23:15-16). See the article on slavery laws for more on the treatment of female slaves.


Weren't some of the women and children sacrificed (Num 31:25-41)?

No - they probably became servants of the priests. This passage is dealt with in the article on human sacrifice.


Why were the men and non-virgin women killed?

The Midianites conspired with the Moabites to curse Israel (Num 22:1-7). When the curse was turned into a blessing instead (24:10-11), the Moabite and Midianite woman agreed to seduce the Israelite men and in doing so entice them to serve their idols (25:1-9, 31:15-16, Rev 2:14). The Israelites who fell prey to this and engaged in idolatry were also held responsible, and were executed (25:4-5). Virgin women and young girls were obviously not participants in this, so they were spared.


Why was Balaam killed - didn't he bless Israel?

Balaam did follow God's instructions and blessed Israel instead of cursing it as Balak, the Moabite king, wanted him to (Num 24:10-11 - see ch. 22-24 for the whole story). However, following God was not habitual for Balaam: he often practiced sorcery (24:1) and in fact was his idea to bring destruction on Israel by having the women lure the Israelites into sexual immorality and idolatry (31:15-16, Rev 2:14).


What about the Moabites?

The Moabites were a special case - they were descendents of Lot (Gen 19:36-37), and were to remain in the land God had provided for them (Dt 2:9). However, they were excluded from the Israelite community as a result of their actions (Dt 23:3-6).

You disgusting sick old man.

Why did God order Israel to kill men, women and children?


Question: Why did God order Israel to kill men, women and children?
In the Old Testament there are a number of instances of God telling Israel to completely wipe out the peoples who inhabited the land called Palestine (e.g. Deut 7:1-4,16,24). Doesn’t that make the God of the Old Testament a harsh and unjust God, completely different from the God of love portrayed in the New Testament?

[Note: This has continued to be one of the most popular or sought after of the questions and answers and I would wish to add the following comment even before you read on.

First, the challenge is often about a God who orders genocide in respect of the occupants of Canaan. Genocide, I would suggest, is the purposeful wiping out of a tribe, nation or people. A careful reading of the Bible text will show that that was NOT God's intention - it was to drive the occupants out of that land.

Second, if you would like to check out the above assertion I have covered this question in great detail in the book that you will find by using the website link on this page to "God's Love in the Old Testament." Please do go there and check it out and tell your friends about it! You will find this question's answer greatly expanded in Chapter 21, part 6. My intention in writing that book is that it may help many of us with our misunderstandings and misconceptions!]

Answer:

If we are to adequately answer this we will have to give careful consideration to what the Bible says.

To understand this apparent situation we need to understand:
a) the nature of God
b) the nation of Israel and the surrounding nations
c) the options of the inhabitants.

a) The Nature of God

The Bible’s descriptions of God are not at variance between Old and New Testaments.

For example in the Old Testament we find God saying, “The soul who sins is the one who will die.” (Ezek 18:5)

In the New Testament, we find the apostle, Paul, writing “the wages of sin is death” (Rom 6:23).

However, in the Old Testament we also find God declaring, “I take no pleasure in the death of anyone” (Ezek 18:32).

Similarly in the New Testament, we find the apostle, Peter, writing about God, “He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish.” (2 Peter 3:9)

Now in both testaments, the way to avoid death was quite clear:



“Repent and live!” (Ezek 18:32) and “not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance” (2 Peter 3:9).

For the moment that will be enough about God:
o sin will be punished by death
o God doesn’t want death to come to man
o death is avoided by repentance, turning away from the sin.


b) The Nation of Israel and the Surrounding Nations



i) Israel

Israel were a nation created by God, starting from Abraham, then through Isaac and finally through Jacob, who was renamed Israel by God. While in Egypt the families grew over about four hundred years to become the equivalent of a nation of well over a million people.

At the Exodus (see Exodus, chapter 1 to 12) God took them out of Egypt and meeting with them at Mount Sinai created a new nation out of them who would be a special people, specifically related to God (see Exodus 19). The objective of this was to show the world the possibility of a nation being led and guided by God, i.e. to act as a light to the rest of the world, revealing the goodness of God and His plan for His world.

To achieve this possibility God instructed them to remove all the existing inhabitants of the land in order to create a new national identity.



ii) The Surrounding Nations

When we look at the people that Israel were told to destroy, we are told they were to be destroyed because of their wickedness (Deut 9:4), and because they worshipped idols and would turn Israel to those idols and away from God (Deut 7:4,16).

The picture we are given is of nations in possession of the land God had promised Israel, who were totally established in worshipping idols and all of the practices that went with that (e.g. sacrificing children).

From the beginning of the Bible we are shown mankind that has a propensity to turn away from God and turn to all kinds of foolish life styles that can only be described as pagan and uncivilised in the extreme!

This propensity to turn away from God is what the Bible calls ‘Sin’ and because Sin is living contrary to the design of the Creator, it means that such people live utterly destructive life styles.

Because mankind seems to be tainted with this tendency, it also spreads like a virus unless checked. If it is left unchecked, the moral direction of any society is downwards, as our own society is showing at the beginning of the twenty first century.



iii) Israel‘s folly

God knew that if Israel simply went into the land and mingled with the idol worshippers there, they would soon be led astray by them. Hence the objective of removing all the existing inhabitants.

Today we understand the need to destroy Cancer cells before they destroy the body. We may not understand it because we don’t understand the awfulness and destructiveness of Sin, but what we are considering in this question is a surgical operation.

A number of the wars fought in the last century and, indeed, in this century, have been those fought to prevent something worse happen. This is what was behind God’s instructions to Israel (but wait until you get to Part c) below before you make a final judgment!)

In fact this mingling with the idol worshippers did happen, even while Israel were wandering in the desert on the way to the land (see Numbers 25:1,2).

After Israel had settled in the land and after their leader Joshua had died, they quickly gave way to this tendency again (e.g. Judges 2:10-13).

In fact so often did they give way, that eventually the Lord allowed the inhabitants who had not been cleared out of the land to remain to act as a thorn in Israel’s side to continually bring them to their senses (see Judges 2:18-23)

There followed a continuing cycle in their early centuries in the land: apostasy (e.g. Judges 3:7) – disciplinary judgment (Judges 3:8) – repentance (Judges 3:9a) – deliverance from God (Judges 3:9b,10) – peace (Judges 3:11).

c) Options of the Inhabitants



Returning now to our original question, we must look at the possibilities that were given to the inhabitants, which fit in with all that we have said so far.

There were actually three options:

Option No.1 – To leave the Land
There was nothing to stop the inhabitants leaving the land and this some did.

Option No.2 – To join Israel
Some of the inhabitants actually joined the people of Israel and this was perfectly acceptable. Examples of this were Rahab, a spy-prostitute (Joshua 6:25), and the Gibeonite tribe (read Joshua 9).

Option No.3 – To resist God and Israel and die
This did happen for a number – but it was their choice! Similarly today as we saw in 2 Peter 2:9 the choice of death is a personal choice and NOT what God wants.

Our Difficulty in Understanding



We need to understand and hang on to the basic reasoning behind the instruction from God to destroy any unbelieving idolaters who resisted. It was to remove a scourge of pagan lifestyle and to do all possible to prevent Israel being corrupted. The picture given above, of Cancer, needs to be borne in mind.

Where we have a difficulty in understanding all this, it is probably because we fail to see the awfulness of Sin and its consequences.

We live very much in a Society where virtually everything goes and because of that we find it difficult to grasp the concept of wrong that is so abhorrent to a Perfect God that He has to deal with it with destructive judgment to prevent worse happening.

And that brings us right back to the subject of Jesus. To pick up again on one of the earlier verses we quoted (Romans 6:23) “the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus“.

God is always wanting to bring life. WE are the ones who refuse it and prefer death instead!
May it not be

Oh you are sick and refuse to take any responsibility . apologetics is the industry to twist words in the PR disaster of the most evil sick book that millions of xtians have never read..... the bible.

genocide, mass murder, slavery, incest, rape....etc is all there for everyone to read for themselves, apologetics can't change that......but you can try convince yourself it is not in your bible. it is called evil and you are crazy to turn your eye from it.

This grazy old man is heaven bound in the near future.

Where you off to buddy.?

  John {gouda}

Virgin maidens taken as the spoils of war (kidnapping, chattel and misogyny), clothes taken and head shaved (theft and abuse), forced marriage (life-long slavery) and sex in that slavery (rape).  No way around it Gouda, you fail.

But what kindness for allowing her to mourn! (insert sarc tag)

Morality is about what is good for man, in general and individually.  Morality is rooted in our evolutionary past, the preservation of the species.  Language, spoken and written, was the key to our propulsion into modernity.  To end the greatest amount of suffering is to make people happy, to allow people to be who and what they are.  To not take the rights of others away, based on nothing more than opinion.  Opinions are fine, until they cross the line of action.  Your morality fails.

The British historian Arnold Toynbee stated that of the

21 civilizations throughout world history, 19 fell through atheism,

alcoholism,marerialism,and socialism.

  John