Would you rather? - Page 6

All I hear is Michael Ellis bla bla bla..... Do you know any other trainers? haha

Don't get me wrong, I have the utmost respect for Ellis.

I used the Michael Ellis lectures on the French Ring and IPO because they were free and about as good as it gets.  Got something better let's hear it.  I also have studied Balabanov's methods but I am not aware that he has knowledge or experience with French Ring and could or would comment on the differences between the dogs bred for each sport.  I would love to hear Ivan's perspective on Ring Sports, KNPV, and IPO and how those sports have influenced breeders and their dogs.

BooBoo,

If you watched the videos you linked us to, you noticed that Ellis points out that both IPO & KNPVare sports.
 
I am a working dog lover. IPO is just the venue in which I choose to train my dog in to showcase our abilities.

What venue do you choose for you and your dogs?

Mike

 My dogs and I are training for the two and four dog bobsled with plans to compete at the winter games of 2018 in Pyeongchang, South Korea.  When we aren't training for the Winter Olympics we hang out in cat bars and start fights.  We run into some French Ring dogs in the cat bars .. just something to pretend this is on topic.

Boo:

              At least I,ve been to  Michael Ellis seminars meet the man and experienced first hand what you watch with baited breath while your mom makes your chocolate milk and gram cracker cookies. Michael Ellis is a wealth of knowledge but I don,t go to seminars to change my training I do go to meet the presenter and possibly get a different view of the dog world. The problem with "Seminar people" is they go to 10 different seminars taught by 10 different people and change there training 10 different times. To the OP of the thread pick a venue developed a training program with a good training director  and stick to it. 

Those that do, do.Those that don,t watch videos and bitch on the web and condemn those that do! 

McKown .. The one thing that IPO worshippers such as yourself never tire of is talking about is themselves, how many titles they have, and how important they are.  One can only hope that the other dog sports such as French Ring or the Ring Sports in general are less ego driven and more devoted to the actual dogs. 

I love the winter games , we have been training to. My dogs have really caught on quickly i say lets go there in the sled with in seconds waiting for me to start my dogs couldnt do sport for the simple fact there lazy ill be the only guy pulling a sled full of dogs. ..Look For Us!

Sorry Boo:

                      When I give a comment or advice it comes from actually working and titling my dogs where as yours just comes from your Ass.   

Lol

simple answer to original question.
Look, you want to do ring, you get a malinois. You want to do IPO (high level), you get a GSD. Club level, does not matter. However, jumping for a GSD is tough in ring. Too heavy, especially for pallisades.
Also, ring is a prey sport. GSD worked only in prey is lack luster. a good GSD needs conflict in the work to bring power. A GSD, to me, is a more balanced dog. A mal bring speed and willingness to work. You only need very little conflict to bring decent work. This is why they are easier to work. But you get a different kind of power in the blind. This is all generalities. Every dog is different of course.

In terms of suit vs sleeve. A suit is more real? yes and no. If a ring dog sees the suit all the time, the dog knows the suit is a tug toy. It becomes a prey reward and the decoy, a good one, will present the reward as such. However, in schutzhund, where the dog never sees the suit and he absolutely thinks the suit is THE person, it then becomes real. We do use this to encourage a prey dog to be more balanced.

IPO is a huge sport. There are many methods trainers use. You cannot say that one sport is better for service work. It all depends on the club and the dog.
If you train with a guy like Lance Collins, my director at West Coast GSSC, the dogs do not bark for the sleeve. The sleeve is a tool for the dog to end conflict. When the sleeve is not in dog's mouth, there is huge conflict between helper and dog. Dogs trained this way can transition to police work in few months. This is a fact. Why? All the fundamentals are there. The drive is there (proper drives both prey and defence......not just prey). Directional search, not searching for a ball, but searching for the PERSON, and engage the person. And absolute control with clarity.

Whatever you do, just join. Join a club and decide to learn and contribute to the club. To be honest, you spend so much time, sweat and tears with these guys that they become your best friends. you cannot succeed with out your coach, helper, spotter, and dog.
Here is the only problem I see. You say you do not want that careful attentive heel or be that correct. Well, a club worth any salt WILL WANT THAT. A trainer that is any good WILL WANT THAT. Nobody will train with a person who will do a mediocre work. The more critical the club, the BETTER the training. Your dog is MADE to do this. It is up to you to fulfill his genetic capability. It is not easy, that is why people just say stuff on the internet without knowing anything. It is HARD. Brutally hard. Its a mental challenge......especially tracking. However, you see a dog work, you KNOW it is meant to do this. Power, precision, connection, joy. Once you get bit by the bug, you will not quit. You will want more and more. More power, more precision, more more more.