Would you rather? - Page 5

haha ^^^^ that's funny

If you listen to Michael Ellis discuss IPO, KNPV, and the ring sports I don't think you will hear him say the word "club" even once.  I think that puts a realistic perspective on how important the "club" system is.  If any of those attacking what I said would like to find fault with the truth that Michael Ellis spoke about IPO and the way the sport places style and appearance over form and function please have at it.  Michael Ellis knows dogs, dog sports, police and military training through years of training and personal experience.  The original question was French Ring or IPO for a dog the owner wanted to train.  If you listen to the talk on French Ring it would seem that if your dog is a big heavy dog as some are in IPO he probably won't be able to do French Ring as well as the smaller and more athletic dogs bred for that sport.  Also if you listen to the discussion of KNPV you will discover that the dogs bred for KNPV are favored for police work because they have a better tool set for police work.  However it is worth noting that parts of KNPV and IPO training are counterproductive for police dogs.

The link below is for the Michael Ellis KNPV discussion part one and part two

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsgZUltKQS8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdrkxfN0Mxk

lawhyno:

                      You have been given some good advice from those who actually participate in the training world. Then again you have been given lip service (Charley and hard candie) from one who,s experience with the dog world is watching videos and running rampent on the net. Good luck and let us know what you choose. 

I believe the point Michael Ellis made very clearly is that dog breeders have developed different dogs with different tool sets for each of the sports whether it be AKC agility or IPO and that some breeds and bloodlines better suited for the physical and mental challenges of those sports excel in those sports.  A great IPO dog is only great in IPO and may be mediocre in French Ring or Mondio Ring.  If you actually listen to the descriptions of each sport given by Michael Ellis the Belgian Ring is producing some of the best all around dogs not IPO.  Also if one were to actually listen to what Michael Ellis said there is a message that no sport produces a dog superior to all other sports.  The "truth" that IPO followers like to spout off is that IPO dogs are at the apex of the dog world but that false message is exposed if one listens carefully to the discussion of what IPO really is about and the type dogs this type of sport produces.

A link to Michael Ellis discussing the Belgian Ring Sport

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=155

Boo,

The Ellis videos are a great resource to help improve training. Not an excuse to not work your dogs in any venue. Why criticize those that can just because you can't?

What I find offensive about you is that you criticize me, my dog and my sport without ever having met us.

To the OP:

French ring? Mondio? PSA? IPO?  Just pick one and do it. You will learn a lot about you and your dog no matter which way you go.

Mike

dont' worry Mike, He hasn't done any of it.  he is a never has been and never will be.  He doesn't realize just how many of us train together between the ring sports and IPO.  He has no experience in anything other than a video clip and even when he watches that he doesn't even know how to extract the relevant information from that.  He see's and hears what he wants to.  Most of it is in his own mind.  

I think Boo and Helser would work well together!

I neither need or seek the endorsement of the IPO or pseudo experts in IPO such as Zdog or McKown to prove the merit of my dogs.  The topic is and was French Ring versus IPO as a test and sport for the thread's originator and his dog .. Michael Ellis covered all the European sports quite thoroughly because unlike McKown and Zdog he knows what he is talking about and isn't locked in the IPO worship club they belong to.  Michael Ellis and his comments about IPO being a sport of details and appearance over function and performance covered the subject quite well.

sorry, duplicate post