Would you rather? - Page 4

Both the GSDCA-WDA and the USCA are all about the handler's ego and less about the dog. The titles that are given or sometimes earned are a reflection of how great the handler and trainer is.  They barely credit the dog or mention the dog's name .. just a tool for the "competitor" to glorify the ego and a footnote until the time comes to collect breeder fees and sell puppies.  Mondio Ring and the ring sport folks seem to credit the dog and the sport is more varied and real.  No two ring sport contests are identical while IPO is like an opera or a ballet with a fixed pattern and three "acts".  The helper work in the ring sports is less likely to be "fixed" in favor of one competitor over another.  If you want to just get a title and never compete at a national or international level then it likely won't matter very much whether ring sport or IPO as the real cheating and scheming starts at the regional level and goes all the way to the WUSV or the FCI IPO championships.  The DVG seldom gets mentioned but the DVG may be less corrupt and less ego centric than the other IPO organizations as they are all breed and I seldom hear a word about the DVG or their championships which is likely a good thing.  I suspect that the DVG likes staying low key and not trying to beat their chests and shout "me, me, me".  I think you are absolutely correct that a ring sport trained dog is more likely to be able to do real protection.  The average ring sport dog is a better dog than the average IPO dog .. the ones at the top of both sport are very good dogs.  There are a lot of IPO 1 females who got a "breeding certificate" title given to them and they never do IPO again after that.

Funny how someone  with the same amount of sport titles as a neutered dog has testicles has so much to say about not just one sport they have never competed in, but another I doubt they have ever witnessed in real life as well.  Toss in a few national and international organizations that they don't belong to either and your mind can get polluted with bullshit pretty quickly if you spend too much time reading it.  

Michael Ellis explains French Ring Sport and it's free 

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=156

Michael Ellis explains IPO and why it's driving better obedience .. it's because IPO is all obedience .. IPO tracking is an obedience exercise and most of the bite work is too!!

http://leerburg.com/flix/videodesc.php?id=154

Also free videos on KNPV, Mondio Ring, and Belgian Ring on the Leerburg site.  I am not a huge fan of the Leerburg site or videos but I am a huge fan of Michael Ellis because what he says is the truth and what he teaches works.

so without actually addressing the statement you've basically said you know everything you think you know from an internet video :)  We're different you and I.  I've actually trained with Michael on more than one occasion.  I did the decoy work for a dog that titled in Mondio this past year.  I titled my own dogs in IPO, I did helper work for a lot of dogs in IPO from club trials to national level, all just last year.  You speak bullshit.  You talk about stuff you have never experienced in your entire life, so shut it.  You don't even know how to interpret what Michael is saying because you have zero working knowledge of what is being discussed.  Get off your ass and go train a dog, then train 20 more and accomplish something. 

ZDOG .. You are a long way from knowing what Michael Ellis knows and further still from doing what he has done and is doing still.  Go blow smoke up some newbie's butt because those are the only people likely to buy what you are selling.  The topic was French Ring versus IPO ... Michael Ellis does an excellent job of explaining each sport and the type of dogs breeders produce for each sport.  You and all of the IPO "look at us" crowd can never get around everything being about you, your clubs, and the lies you tell yourself.  Plenty of dog trainers and great dogs with no IPO titles or plastic IPO trophies on the bookshelf above a photo of themselves.

i think what zdog wasn't putting as bluntly as i will, is that there is a grave concern regarding your ability to correctly regurgitate, leave alone comprehend and apply, any kind of training knowledge made available to you. you clearly are the smartest person you know and therefore it makes sense to you that you are omitting ofa certifications due to the process being a costly scam, avoiding training at the club level because it's too time consuming, condemning import stock used by handlers but use an import male in your 'program', foregoing titling your dogs because titles merely are the reflection of corruption and collusion, dispensing freely, yet incorrectly, assimilated knowledge from otherwise quite valid (dvd) sources, blababoo, blababoo, blababoo. if you take a deep breath and don't pull your usual digital analog of a rumpelstiltskin, you may see what other people see. come to think of it, a change in perspective probably won't make a difference  since you lived in germany at some point, which seems to be your equivalent of having stayed at a holiday inn express. so go ahead, let 'er rip.

And the topic is French Ring versus IPO and I have tried to stay on it by pointing out the truth about the IPO clubs and organizations which like their sport are more about appearances than actual facts or the actual work they love to talk about.  Plenty of IPO dogs that will chase the helper as long as he has a sleeve on and then nothing  .... if the sleeve is slipped and left on the ground the IPO dog will most often go to the sleeve and pick up their "toy prize" and proudly run around with their toy in their mouth all day .... and forget about that human thing that was wearing the sleeve.  As usual the IPO people have no response to the truth other than to try to discredit the bearer of the news that their sport is a sport of appearance and style over actual function and performance.  If you bother to listen to Michael Ellis he covers the style versus function differences between KNPV, Ring Sports, and IPO very thoroughly and IPO does not fare well in comparison finishing dead last. 

Bubba says:

"IPO clubs and organizations which like their sport are more about appearances than actual facts or the actual work they love to talk about."


Bubba
How many clubs have you been a member of or trained a dog at? (it doesn't count if you just hid in the bushes and snickered to your self)

Mike Delaney