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by zdog on 31 December 2013 - 15:12
and again, you miss the point SDA is still a sport. It is no more real than anything else. if you like doing more "real" exercises for a sport because IPO doesn't trip your trigger, go for it, but don't confuse it for something it's not. I have never, and I do mean NEVER done a training session in my home. I haven't trained this same dog past 12 months because she didn't have what I wanted to continue in sport. I can wake her up from a dead sleep on the living room floor with a "pas auf" command and she erupts into barking looking for "the bad guy". was that from all my non sport training that I never did with her :)
There are plenty of shitty dogs doing "reality" based sports. It doesn't mean jack. There are plenty of shitty dogs doing IPO. There are plenty of good doing both. People get bored doing IPO, I get it. Swinging plastic bottles thru windows at dogs is fun for some, have fun with it. It doesn't really tell me anything about a dog I can't already see, but that's me. But don't think that because you train your dog over and over again for a "car jacking" exercise you're really training your dog for real life. There is so much context to that exercise that someone even as crappy as my astuteness is, I can tell when a car jacking is going to happen on every PSA video or trial I've ever seen. Don't think the dog doesn't know the context either. People are easily fooled into thinking some things are things they most certainly are not. If you take away all that context I"m guessing those dogs would react the same way most other dogs would meaning a good dog in IPO will respond accordingly and a good dog in PSA, SDA, FR, MR would respond accordingly as well. and a lot of dogs would be like "huh, what's happening, this context is different" and they'd GTFO.
There are plenty of shitty dogs doing "reality" based sports. It doesn't mean jack. There are plenty of shitty dogs doing IPO. There are plenty of good doing both. People get bored doing IPO, I get it. Swinging plastic bottles thru windows at dogs is fun for some, have fun with it. It doesn't really tell me anything about a dog I can't already see, but that's me. But don't think that because you train your dog over and over again for a "car jacking" exercise you're really training your dog for real life. There is so much context to that exercise that someone even as crappy as my astuteness is, I can tell when a car jacking is going to happen on every PSA video or trial I've ever seen. Don't think the dog doesn't know the context either. People are easily fooled into thinking some things are things they most certainly are not. If you take away all that context I"m guessing those dogs would react the same way most other dogs would meaning a good dog in IPO will respond accordingly and a good dog in PSA, SDA, FR, MR would respond accordingly as well. and a lot of dogs would be like "huh, what's happening, this context is different" and they'd GTFO.
by lawhyno on 31 December 2013 - 15:12
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by lawhyno on 31 December 2013 - 16:12
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by Hired Dog on 31 December 2013 - 16:12
Did you read my post? Yes, it is that simple...you start with a dog that has the genetic qualities you need in a dog to be trained for protection, you then spend the money to have that dog trained by someone who understands how the real world functions and what a dog is supposed to do.
Again, train as you fight and fight as you train and always remember, until the day your dog bites a "bad guy" in his underwear or shorts and a T-shirt, you will never know if that dog will actually ever bite anyone for real.
Again, train as you fight and fight as you train and always remember, until the day your dog bites a "bad guy" in his underwear or shorts and a T-shirt, you will never know if that dog will actually ever bite anyone for real.
by zdog on 31 December 2013 - 16:12
why do you think a suit is any more "real" than a sleeve?
by ziegenfarm on 01 January 2014 - 11:01
i have a concern & wonder what some folks think about it. i love the idea of cross training dogs in different sports & also in real scenarios, however, some
dog sports are clearly geared for the smaller frame and more agile malinois & dutch shepherds. yes, i know some of them are are heavy as german shepherds.
i guess my main concern is the scaling wall excercises to be specific. i've had some gsds that i would have no reservations about, yet i have also had others
that i wouldn't dream of putting over the wall due to potential injuries. some just flat out couldn't do it. what does this tell us? have we made grievous errors in
size & confirmation of the gsds? is it resonable or unreasonable to expect a gsd to be able to do the same things as a mal or dutch? what do others think about
this?
pjp
dog sports are clearly geared for the smaller frame and more agile malinois & dutch shepherds. yes, i know some of them are are heavy as german shepherds.
i guess my main concern is the scaling wall excercises to be specific. i've had some gsds that i would have no reservations about, yet i have also had others
that i wouldn't dream of putting over the wall due to potential injuries. some just flat out couldn't do it. what does this tell us? have we made grievous errors in
size & confirmation of the gsds? is it resonable or unreasonable to expect a gsd to be able to do the same things as a mal or dutch? what do others think about
this?
pjp
by Nans gsd on 01 January 2014 - 12:01
Ziegenfarm I believe it goes back to the "form or function" scenario. What WE have done to the breed...
by Gustav on 01 January 2014 - 12:01
If the degree of angle of the croup, and the upper arm is not to short, and the length of stifle is pleasing, why shouldn't they be able to do these things, they could in past when they weren't as correct. I mean this in reference to any of the lines! ( don't want unintended sensitivity...lol).... Stands to reason to me they shouldn't have problem with these things.
by majorx0 on 08 January 2014 - 00:01
spend some time at both clubs and see which one is a better fit for YOU....if you have a decent dog with the right drives, you will be able to do either sport... I'd stick with a small group with decent helpers and steer clear from the drama, clicks and politics. Then learn to be a helper and help give back to your team.
by ronin on 08 January 2014 - 09:01
Personally I would be tempted to go with the Club which has the best trainers and support network regardless of the Sport.
The one thing that has not been discussed in detail here is the "YOU" element, how good are your handling skills, how motivated are you to travel, train, give up big parts of your life, take straight talking feedback about "yourself" on the chin and move on. The concept of most sports, dogs or not, is they are progressive and by setting goals you develop momentum in your training and progress. Your dog is far better at this than you are.
If possible I would steer away from IPO because the self discipline and time required to develop each skill is too time consuming & technical for most who want a hobby and a "family protection dog". Remember you don't want a MAN-STOPPER, as even the most experienced on here will testify they can be a bloody nightmare to live with if you're not up to it.
If you won the lottery tomorrow and hired a couple of retired Navy Seals to protect your family 24/7 they would bring with them their own baggage! To be effective they need on going training in weapons, self defence, first aid, driving skills etc. They frequently need time to maintain their strength & cardiovascular systems, they need proper rest and recovery periods, good food etc. They are human so just like yourself they will have off days, make errors or plain forget things, they will get bored with the monotony of your life another risk to their effective performance. They could even misread or misjudge situations everyday situations. Many people have unrealistic expectations of what a Protection Dog can or will do, remembers dogs don't know what guns are, just noise to them, or edged weapons, an evening jogger wrapped up to keep warm or some nutter running at you to cause harm.
Any good Club will help you develop yourself, your understanding of dogs and getting you moving to finding that personal niche in life you and your dog would like to fill. A bit like training in Judo or Boxing, both sports but I don't want to fight any of them..LOL.
Good luck mate.
Ronin
The one thing that has not been discussed in detail here is the "YOU" element, how good are your handling skills, how motivated are you to travel, train, give up big parts of your life, take straight talking feedback about "yourself" on the chin and move on. The concept of most sports, dogs or not, is they are progressive and by setting goals you develop momentum in your training and progress. Your dog is far better at this than you are.
If possible I would steer away from IPO because the self discipline and time required to develop each skill is too time consuming & technical for most who want a hobby and a "family protection dog". Remember you don't want a MAN-STOPPER, as even the most experienced on here will testify they can be a bloody nightmare to live with if you're not up to it.
If you won the lottery tomorrow and hired a couple of retired Navy Seals to protect your family 24/7 they would bring with them their own baggage! To be effective they need on going training in weapons, self defence, first aid, driving skills etc. They frequently need time to maintain their strength & cardiovascular systems, they need proper rest and recovery periods, good food etc. They are human so just like yourself they will have off days, make errors or plain forget things, they will get bored with the monotony of your life another risk to their effective performance. They could even misread or misjudge situations everyday situations. Many people have unrealistic expectations of what a Protection Dog can or will do, remembers dogs don't know what guns are, just noise to them, or edged weapons, an evening jogger wrapped up to keep warm or some nutter running at you to cause harm.
Any good Club will help you develop yourself, your understanding of dogs and getting you moving to finding that personal niche in life you and your dog would like to fill. A bit like training in Judo or Boxing, both sports but I don't want to fight any of them..LOL.
Good luck mate.
Ronin
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