OFA and PennHip .. A franchise opportunity for veterinarians with price fixing - Page 2

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by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 13:11

It's generally what the market will bare. Most vets belong to local associations and fees are often a topic of discussion at the meetings.  It's the same with  other services like vaccines that cost the average vet less that $1.00 including the syringe.  If you can find a vet with a mixed practice - large and small animals - you might get a better rate but you will probably not get  a digital using state of the art equipment; more than likely a portable machine will be used and the films developed manually.  Some vets might agree to participating in a reduced xray clinic if there is enough interest from local breeders. The local kennel club may be interested in trying to organize that. Otherwise, you pay what they ask.

Pay for sedation, it can make a difference as most dogs will be tense and fight the manipulation which can  make the hips appear tighter they really are.   I've never used Penn Hip.

by Sunsilver on 28 November 2013 - 14:11

We did have a discussion about dogs being injured during the Penn-Hip exam, and I e-mailed Fred Lanting a link to the thread.  Lanting, as many of you know, has written a book on Canine Orthopedics and Hip Dysplasia, and is a very strong supporter of Penn-Hip. He was extremely indignant at the suggestion the exam had caused injury.

So indignant I really can't quote his e-mail, even if I had permission to do so!  Red Smile

I am going to include one line from it, though, just to establish his credentials: I have been actively researching and teaching about HD since 1966. I would wager that far more people would trust my judgment than that of this [poster's name removed]

In addition to having a PhD, he got his license as a veterinary technician so he could actually be present and assist during orthopedic surgery, and have a better, hands-on understanding of orthopedic problems.

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 14:11

Holding a meeting of competitors and setting prices based on a mutual agreement for pricing is called price fixing and is an illegal business practice.  Franchise sellers and license grantors such as Wendy's set prices based on the cost of grouped advertising and the franchise holder is bound by contract to buy advertising and his supplies from the franchise seller such as a Wendy's franchise holder must.  Often the pricing and menu items are set by the franchise seller for all owners and members in the advertising campaign.  PennHip and OFA act much like a franchise seller in that the veterinarian must go to the OFA or PennHip "school" to get a license.  I also strongly suspect there is a suggested price for both OFA and PennHip services and that those who sell the service below those prices face sanction or professional pressures to keep their prices in line with the norm.  OFA now requires sedation for OFA hips and elbows as I understand the rules for certification. This is likely due to the veterinarians wanting to make the process as easy and profitable as possible for them as they profit from the anesthetic sale, administration, and a speedier process once the animal is sedated.  The idea that anesthesia gives truer results when x rays of joints are taken is laughable as I am not aware of dogs running or using their joints in a state of stupor.  

As far as Fred Lanting and his ancient science goes the science of genetics is proving many of his theories wrong day by day and if he lives long enough he will see much of what he was so sure of and has promoted proven wrong.  The future of dog breeding lies in combining dogs with with genetic defects (and they all have genetic defects) with other dogs having a different set of genetic defects in such a way as to mitigate most of their defects in the offspring.  The OFA, PennHip, and Fred Lanting approach to breeding in which all genetic defects lead to the animal being removed from the breeding population is being shown to be simplistic and unlikely to produce the desired results for the individual dog breeds.  

by greyhoundgirl on 28 November 2013 - 14:11

Most vets are charging the same fees for OFA x-rays as they do for other x-rays. There is still the cost per view, anesthesia, and any blood work.

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 14:11

Well, believe it or not, Bubba, sedation can make a difference for some dogs. Either you want to know the true status of a dog's hips or you  just want a number, your decision. OFA does not "require" sedation, they suggest it. The SV now requires it. How many hip xrays of the same dog taken with and and without sedation have you seen? Where did you receive your radiology training?

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

The question remains why do OFA hip and elbow x rays with submission cost $350-$400 in my area and according to some much less in others??  I think the truth is that OFA and PennHip have generally favored higher prices and fees for x rays of hips and elbows because of the licensing and franchise they provide for the vets who play by their rules.  

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

So you don't like Fred Lanting either, Bubba? He's going to be really upset if he hears that.

by Blitzen on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

What does OFA have to do with what vets charge for xrays?  It's up to the vet to decide what he wants to charge for anything;  ALL fees range greatly from one area to the other. It's your option to either pay what they ask or to find another vet who charges what you think is a fair fee. If you feel as if there is price fixing and if you can prove it, see an attorney.

by hexe on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

bubbabrewhaha, please provide the basis for your claim that "OFA now requires sedation". I find no press release, news bulletin, or other announcement or statement of such a policy change.

by bubbabooboo on 28 November 2013 - 15:11

Sedation is an unnatural state for a dog so why suggest or require it when taking x rays to determine the status of the dog's joints??  Sedation has nothing to do with the true status of the dog's hips or elbows in use if the dog is limp as a rag doll and the joints are not being held in a normal position for that dog's musculature while the x ray is being taken.  The predictability between OFA hips or elbow scores of the parents and their offspring is around 50/50 or the same as flipping a coin according to PennHip pushers such as Lanting.  Any real scientist would know that a predictability below 70% is useless for scientific use yet OFA and PennHip sell their snake oil to anyone who will buy.  PennHip is slightly better than OFA which is terrible in predicting hip and elbow scores of the offspring.  PennHip and OFA are very good at viewing the status of an individual dog's hips on the day of the test but little else and you don't need either OFA or PennHip to take an x ray of a dog's hips and judge the results.  The SV introduced their "breeding worthiness" or ZW because x rays were so useless alone and the combination of ZW plus x rays gave better results at predicting the next generations hip and elbow scores supposedly.  

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