2013 FCI and WUSV Championships - Page 6

Bubba, I really don't think people are interested in your spin or opinion, or interpretation, we are fine with the facts presented by Unknown and supported by D Yee's letter. Plain and simple!

Of course the USCA wants to write the history books and only have their version of the USA story heard, fortunately that is not going to happen.  Scutzhund IPO gets smaller each year in the USA and around the world including Germany.  The USCA with their lies, cheating and vendettas only make it die faster in the USA.  If the WDA does implode as the USCA goobers predict it will only hasten the demise of IPO in the USA and you can bet the Germans will be the ones to turn out the lights and close the doors when the wonderful world of IPO in the USA exists no more and both the WDA and the USCA are extinct.  AKC agility is the fastest growing dog sport in the USA and far exceeds IPO in breed participation, total participation, and general popular recognition among the public so if the USCA is waiting for the AKC and the GSDCA to implode settle in for a long wait. 

Then it is settled....love live agility!

My opinion:

                       Schutzhund should,nt be for the masses!. I,d rather see a smaller more dedicated organization with the best intent for the breed even if it cost more in dues and trials. The worst thing that has happened to the GSD breed is(other then the self destruction from the mother country) is popularity. The excitement of the general public  to own a GSD has contributed so much to it,s down fall as a working breed that many are a far cry from the working dog that the founder asked so pleadingly for it to remain. I,d wager that 7 out of 10 people who breed GSD,s in this country have no idea what a breed standard(it seems many German judges don,t either)  is or what temperament or working drives are about.  The more popular a breed becomes is always it,s down fall. 

              Many people do come to see what Schutzhund is all about,note i say Schutzhund not IPO because I believe the "Sport" bares some of the same responsibility for the demise. The "Breed test" turned "sport" has so vanquished the object of the test that it no longer is relevant to use as a suitability test. Where are the stressors that show the dogs true working ability to make judgments on it,s own to show it,s true power and utility they have been systematical removed for sake of weaker dogs making the title.

   If i were thinking about trying Schutzhund training with my dog and came across idiots like this on the internet I,d never want any thing to do with the subject all the wild accusations and spining, lessons us all. Look at all the shisters and no accounts that prey on people in the Breed and Sport how many people constantly do we hear horror stories  from that have been taken to the cleaners by these crooks. 

I believe the WDA will loose more members just because of there lack of trials, till there none existent as a organization. I have nothing against the individual membership I,m sure there all excellent individuals  but i do have issue with a organization that has to depend on a others to just survive. Is USCA perfect? Hell know but what is! I believe there is too much emphasis on the world level competition,I don,t dam it or seek it,s demise but i,d like to see the organization place emphasis more widely on the working aspects of the breed and develop, even if it is it,s own program for the working dog for breeding development.    
   
The back and forth and rehashing of personnel issues and ax grinding kills us with a thousand cuts. I,ll continue to support the organization of my choosing and there World and National competitions with my money and help and hope for the future changes that i would like to see. 

 

The USCA's defense of the low class behavior they exhibit toward the GSDCA and GSDCA-WDA rings hollow and false.  The German Shepherd Dog was originally a herding dog .. herding dogs bite very little if at all.  The work the founders had in mind was not biting a jute sleeve or doing obedience tracking.  A Great Pyrenees guarding sheep or a Border Collie herding them is closer to the original GSD definition of "work".  The emphasis on biting work came from humans selecting for it and in many cases little else.  Competitive schutzhund has done more to harm the GSD than to help it and the brand of IPO practiced by the USCA hurts the breed the most.  Biting a jute sleeve is not work it is a game.  The average agility dog and trainer are more "sporting" than an IPO dog and handler.  At least the agility handlers has to run and do more than waddle around the field and give hand gestures and verbal cues. In Germany the show and biting GSD live side by side so why not in the USA??  But in the USA the tiny minority of GSD owners doing IPO want to look down their noses and claim superiority over all other GSD owners and handlers doing the real work.  Working dog is a craptastic code word for biting in the USA used by those hiding behind the label to make bite work more politically correct.  Most IPO dogs do zero actual work, it is all a game.  The police would never dare train a dog in schutzhund before giving the dog the full biting education it needs to do police work.  As most police trainers will tell you "schutzhund will ruin your dog".  IPO tracking is a joke .. it is not tracking it is obedience.  A GSD doing IPO tracking is of zero interest or use to police or S&R handlers.  More German Shepherds are guide dogs and assistance dogs than those doing IPO and they do actual work in that they really help people.  IPO is only competitive in the sense that their is a set course and scoring .. the dog and handler do not compete against another dog and handler that are trying to prevent their advancement or performance as in soccer, football, or baseball.  IPO is closer to golf than baseball.  The suggestion that an IPO or even a police dog is the top of the breed is laughable.  Many IPO dogs are simply obsessive compulsive dogs with enough courage to bite a sleeve reliably most of the time.  Police dogs are what police officers are .. individuals trained to do a dangerous job.  Police officers are not at the top of the societal or human development scale and while many are doing serious and dangerous work for the public some are also nut jobs and as bad as the people they are chasing.  And so it is with the great IPO championship dogs, some are great and some are nut jobs .. the title does not make the dog, the dog makes the title.  The USCA is properly named .. they are a schutzhund club first and GSD supporters 2 nd or third.  The top USCA competitors buy trained and in most cases titled dogs in Europe and never breed or raise their own puppies and compete with them (T. Floyd is the most notable exception).  The USCA does not support the GSD they support schutzund competition and like to fancy themselves the top of the food chain when in fact they are bottom feeders.  IPO does not belong on a pedestal .. it is just another game like agility that dogs can do or not do.  There are plenty of great GSD that are not IPO dogs and plenty of IPO GSD that are not great.

Bubba, is this your personal justification for not training your dogs in IPO? For breeding without IPO title and without KKL?

Not every IPO dog is breedworthy, not every KKL dog is breedworthy but NONE of the dogs not able to achieve an IPO title followed by a breed survey is breedworthy.
You want to do agility? Do it, there are a lot of breeds and mutts out there doing well in this sport.

Worldwide guys like you are creating a new breed looking like a German Shepherd behaving like a pet.
"Cheating" in a trial or in a breed survey is bad practice, not good at all for the breed, but doing NOTHING besides some obedience and agility is worse.

"Police work".... I don´t want to destroy your dreams, but I used to train SchH dogs for police for several years - sleeve, hidden sleeve, bite suit - all of it a matter of training - no difference in tracking.
There are good dogs and there are bad dogs, no matter if IPO or "real" police dogs.

For the breed : Stricter rules, fewer puppies...

Ah, useless nonsense, enough said.
 

Earning an agility title isn't any easier than earning an IPO1,2,3. It just may not be breed-specific proof of breed worthiness for a GSD.

To do well in any sport takes a lot of hard work.  Nobody that trains and competes will deny that.  It seems to be those that do NOTHING that have the most to say about things they know nothing about.  I play around in agility, i don't compete in it.  It's too much more work than what I already do and i'm lazy :)  But teaching all the exercises and transitions and your footwork, plus your dogs, etc does take a lot of work.  and yes, it is not a test for breed worthiness.  a test of a lot of hardwork and training, most definitely, but I don't think it tests the whole gamut of characteristics that need to be present in a quality GSD.  

as for all this talk about biting, again, it shows just how little you know.  Grip and grip behavior has always been very much valued in the GSD, from the very first days of their existence.  The fact you'd relate a livestock guardian breed and a border collie to them is laughable.  You have no understanding of any of it, but I guess we all knew that before that post :)

The German SHEPHERD Dog was and is still used today as a living fence between small plots of land,  roads and fields .. there was no biting other than nipping at the sheep to keep them contained .. this is well documented.  The dogs were fast, agile and nimble as the drawings and photographs of the time of the founding dogs shows.  Much more like a Malinois than the GSD of today which has nothing to do with the founder's dogs or the work they did.  Those original dogs were built to run 30 miles or more a day and day after day.  The sheep industry faded and while the GSD herding dog types persist in Germany today they still bear little resemblance to the big heads and large bodies of the male IPO dogs of today or the large heavy show line dogs of today.  The dogs the founders bred disappeared after WWII except in those kennels which kept the herding qualities over Schutzhund qualities.       

What's well documented is that the German SHEPHERD Dog has always been judged by its grip and gripping behavior. I suggest you just quiet down about things you know about. It had zero to do with nipping at anything. Just google it, or just pick up The German Shepherd Dog in Word and Picture. You can read about it. Maybe you wont go thru the rest of your life being so ignorant.