USDA cracks down on Internet pet sales - Page 2

Rescues are not breeding and selling, technically... they are being adopted, so I don't think this applies at all.

Sight-unseen???

Rescues that have 501[c] exemption would certainly be exempt; not as sure about those rescues that don't have the federal tax-exempt status, however. That could end up being on a case-by-case basis subject to review of the financials for the rescue organization.

Read it and weep, lol.
http://news.yahoo.com/usda-cracks-down-internet-pet-sales-040225530.html

Are you hoping this will cause problems for breeders?



I think "allow" is the key word.  I allow any puppy buyer who wants to come see the dogs to do so.  On average 50-60% of them don't because they are having the pup shipped to them.  Some litters that number is lower, some it's higher.  Depending on how you define "sight-unseen" even the ones I ship to aren't buying a total unknown, they have seen photos and videos of the pups as they grow up.  Not sure if that would mean they weren't "sight-unseen" or not.

If they pass a law that all buyers MUST see the pup prior to purchase, that might affect breeders, then again it might not.  Sure I may loose a buyer on the East Coast to a breeder out there because of the cost of flying here to see the pups, but at the same time an East Coast breeder may loose a West Coast buyer to me.

I can't actually see this effecting anyone.  Off hand I can't think of any category of breeder who does internet sells that refuses to allow the buyer to see the pup prior to purchase.   The only buyers not seeing the pup prior to purchase, or at the time of purchase, is the person having the pup shipped, and they are making the decision to ship it.  Unless there are "breeders" selling pups through an online shopping cart, where you complete the entire sale and pay via credit card/paypal before you pick the pup up?  But even in those situations are they actually refusing to allow people to see the pups prior to purchase if requested, or are the people not requesting it?
Even puppymills allow the broker to see the pups, and since the broker is their buyer, not the pet home the pups ultimately end up in (if they survive long enough) they would be in compliance with this.

The only thing about this I did not like from the start is that they do not define "breeding female"....is it any unspayed female, even if not part of your breeding program?  What about female puppies you grow out for the showring, who may or may not be used in your breeding program, at what point do they start being considered a "breeding female"?  Also, this would be a nightmare to enforce, how would anybody even know how many "breeding" females someone has?  I neither have enough females for this to effect me, nor do I breed very often, so even if I did at some point have 4 females and a litter I guess I would just choose not to ship or have out of state customers come pick up in person.

Even puppymills allow the broker to see the pups, and since the broker is their buyer, not the pet home the pups ultimately end up in (if they survive long enough) they would be in compliance with this.

Are you sure about that? I am thinking if this affects anyone it will be how the brokers operate. This legislation is aimed at the internet puppy-broker order takers, that do business over the internet, as far as I can tell. If the buyer writes a check to the internet broker/order taker for their puppy purchase, then they are the one's who need to provide physical access or be licensed such as to be subject to inspections like a commercial breeder expects. I would think, any way.

And too, maybe there is a distinction for a shipping broker who would be classified as a transporter or expediter service only, for a breeder and then it wouldn't apply? I would think the one's who buy pregnant bitches will have to rethink their compliance standards, perhaps.
 

I was also told that other intact animals of other SPECIES on the proeprty could count.  And that co owned animals also count, even if they do not reside with you

a breeding female is considered any intact female over the age of 6 months.

so if a hobby breeder, by definition is training, showing and earning titles and waiting until a dog has its hips and elbow certified, they will not breed until the dog is at least 2 years old.

if this breeder has 2 female puppies coming up, and an older retired female that is un-spay, than this breeder can only legally have one female to breed with.

come on folks think this thru..........what are the unintended consequences of this new law?

1.. more demand on the female that is actually being bred - no more skipping heat cycles.
2.. fewer promising females that will be kept for training, certifying, showing, trialing and possibly breeding (or fewer will wait until the promising females are 2).
3.. more older females will find themselves kicked to the side, as keeping them will hurt the ability to make enough $$to support the hobby.



usda licensed kennels are not part of this law as there are other laws already on the books to govern them.



 

I think "allow" is the key word.  I allow any puppy buyer who wants to come see the dogs to do so.  On average 50-60% of them don't because they are having the pup shipped to them.  Some litters that number is lower, some it's higher.  Depending on how you define "sight-unseen" even the ones I ship to aren't buying a total unknown, they have seen photos and videos of the pups as they grow up.  Not sure if that would mean they weren't "sight-unseen" or not.

If they pass a law that all buyers MUST see the pup prior to purchase, that might affect breeders, then again it might not.  Sure I may loose a buyer on the East Coast to a breeder out there because of the cost of flying here to see the pups, but at the same time an East Coast breeder may loose a West Coast buyer to me.
I think the only people affected by this will be the ones doing wrong by their dogs. Over a decade ago, I was looking at Rottweiler breeders when I lived in NY. I emailed one, and after several back'n'forths, asked if I could come meet the parents, see the puppies and facility. The breeder said she never lets clients on her property, gave a bunch of bullsh*t sounding reasons, and so I continued my search elsewhere. 

Last May, this news report showed up in my feed: Nearly 80 Rottweilers Found in Deplorable Conditions. http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/04/30/police-nearly-80-rottweilers-found-at-womans-home-in-orange-county/ It was the same kennel I contacted in the 90s. 

In my opinion, if someone is unwilling to let clients see their facility, their breeding dogs and puppy(ies), then it indicated they're probably doing something wrong anyhow. 

I think the buyer ought be able to visit the breeder's facility, see the pups in person, etc. Whether they chose to or not, like Malndobe said, is the client's choice. However, I hardly think there is a logical reason a breeder can prohibit prospective clients from visiting their facility. *shrugs* I think, if the breeder's doing everything right, s/he would be -proud!- to show clients how the dogs are kept, and let them meet the pups.

"Are you hoping this will cause problems for breeders?"

Ah, I am a breeder. Before I go any further do you want Olis email address? It seems to be an issue with you when I/we answer back or comment on anything you don't agree with.

Anyways, it does say allow, you are 100% correct but it also says this "The Agriculture Department estimates that up to 4,640 dog breeders could be affected by the rule" so why would the USDA make such rules when according to you they won't apply to anyone on the face of the earth breeding dogs? What they made the rules just because they could? They are flat out telling us it effects around 4,640 dog breeders so I guess they just throw the number out there because again they can. So, whether you believe it or not breeders will be affected by these rules.

Oh and BTW go back and re-read the article as it has been updated since I posted it earlier. Good luck with your premise that this won't affect any breeders. LOL

And here is more info on the people it will not affect. http://www.aphis.usda.gov/newsroom/2013/09/pdf/pet_retail_docket_2011-2003.pdf

And look at this little gem.

"However, this rule will only affect those dog breeders who sell dogs as pets, not for hunting, security, breeding, or other purposes; who
maintain more than four breeding females on their property; and whose buyers are not all physically present to observe the animals prior to
purchase and/or to take custody of that animal after purchase. When these conditions are taken into account, we estimate that there are between 2,600 and4,640 dog breeders that may be affected by this rule."


Also, this does affect rescues. Whether for profit or non-profit.