techniques to improve my dogs grip? - Page 2

hey, vk, post a dog.



best to you,
Rik Atchley

 

Rik,
I completely understand what you are saying.  I haven't read all that many of the OP's posts, but I have seen just a few of them.  I have found this forum in recent times to be a place for mainly novices and not as much for serious GSD people, or at least people that understand what a GSD should be as we do. 
 
I'm not disagreeing with your point or your post.  I just thought this was a thread where I would add my 2 cents, FWIW.  

Joan,

Rik, you are amusing, don't like the thread - ignore it. if i was a faker i would be telling you how great me and my mythical dog are, as it is i have posted of late some actual question threads asking actual questions - anyhoo have a nice day and please don't trash my dog, me no like that.

As per usual, Slam is dead on correct.

It takes a very very skilled individual to be able to work their own dog,
and that's essentially only working the dog in prey. As Slam noted,
any dog that will bite it's owner in anything but prey is setting the owner
up for a trip to the hospital!

What you will accomplish by working your own dog is conflict, this is
coming across in the typewriter chewing. Of course, this is a general 
statement, having not seen your dog working, it could just be you have 
a very defensive dog etc. Your best bet is to make the most of the 
best training you have available and stop creating more problems with 
your own dog by NOT working it yourself. A perfect example, there are 
some very strong dominant dogs that cannot even be rewarded in obedience
with a tug as the dog will push too hard and want to tip over into fight drive, 
this will create mental conflict with the dog, and, end result, chewy shallow
biting, rebiting etc. 

Slam is also right about most of the threads and posters these days!.

Slam is right, of course.

And I'd like to add my 2 cent's worth:

Yes, there is a huge genetic component to grip.  The difference between the way my working line dog, showline dog and a friend's Shiloh shepherd grip a ball or tug is like night and day. Even though the working line's teeth are worn to the gums in spots, you will have on heck of a time getting that ball out of his mouth!.

A dog should be worked extensively in basic obedience before it even SEES a sleeve. You can work on grip using a tug or ball as a reward for heeling, etc., as you train for your BH. "Fight' with the dog over the toy when you give it to them as a reward.

.GRADUALLY  transition to a bite pillow/block, then to the sleeve. By the time you start sleeve work, the dog will be so focused on the sleeve as a toy, he will not be conflicted over biting it because YOU are wearing it.

That's if you INSIST on going this route, and not finding someone else who can act as a helper, as others have recommended.

One surefire way to ruin a dog is to not build a firm foundation, and that's what you're doing.

"Slam is right, of course." Then there's this: " "Fight' with the dog for the toy when you give it to them as a reward." and then ...." he will not be conflicted over biting it because YOU are wearing it."
One needs to go back and reread Slam's post. While you're at it, take another look atWorkingdogz's post.

i thought about commenting, but when i read that you didnot want an "internet analysis" of your dog.................eh, what's the point?
pjp

 Sunsilver, we are so far at the opposite ends of the spectrum I can't agree. 
Depending on the temperment of the OP's dog, any fight from the handler can
and will create conflict with the dog. And again, depending on the skill level of
the handler, even prey work with a tug can create chewy hectic grips.
If a grip is chewy and/or shallow by nature, it will be something that needs
to be maintained and worked on for the entire 'career' of the dog if it's important
to the handler. It will never be 'good', it will require work to maintain. 

The OP needs to find a skilled helper and stick with working with that person, 
even if it's only once a month. No work is better than crappy work. Bads habits
are so easy to set, and as Murphy's Law prevails, dogs will learn the wrong things
faster than the right  Bitework can indeed be started before all obedience is in 
order, many dogs actually learn certain exercises while using the bite as a reward.
A skilled helper is not expensive, they are indeed priceless. 

WD, if that's the case (playing with the tug as a reward for obedience causes conflict) then how come it's pretty much the standard way of doing things in schutzhund training?  Many trainers will sneer at you if you try using treats as a reward.

Dogs that react this way must be just a small minority, or this wouldn't be such a common way of training.

What would you use as a reward for such a dog?

And when you say using the bite as a reward for 'certain exercises', what exercises would those be? Are you talking a bite on a sleeve?

I didn't mean obedience has to be perfect before bitework is started, but the basics had better be in place. There's no way you can teach a bark and hold if a dog's sit isn't properly proofed.