4 month old puppy hip xray - Page 2

It's ok if you don't agree with pennhip. I already did it anyways. Just wanted to get some opinions on how the hips look that's all.

Way too young to tell. The earliest I would ever do is 8 months unless there was a lameness issue. I like to do 14 months for the SV
 

This is what PennHip claims to be true, I have never done a PennHip on any of my dogs, but have been considering it.
If it is as reliable as they say, wouldn't it be nice not to waste all your time and expense in a pup that will have bad hips, when you are able to find out this info so early at 4 months old, coming from a breeders point of view.
  Hugo, what are your plans for this pup?
 Will you still x-ray your pup/dog when he/she turns two?
I personally would do the PennHip method just so I could have my dogs results as soon as possible,
Although, look at the bottom line, they want repeated evaluations to get a more reliable estimate, wait, they just said you can tell at 4 months.......now it is sounding more like job security for the vet who knows how to do PennHip x-rays:(
I am confused.....

PennHIP has studied the efficacy of this method from the eight weeks up to three years of age. The PennHIP method can be reliably performed on a dog as young as 16 weeks old. Passive hip laxity at 16 weeks correlates highly with later hip laxity. In other words, a dog's hip laxity at 16 weeks will be much the same at one year, two years or even three years. The accuracy of laxity measurements for German Shepherd Dogs less than 16 weeks of age is not high enough to be of clinical use. Other breeds require study to determine the earliest reliable age of evaluation.


The looser the joint, as determined by the PennHIP method, the greater is the chance that the hip will develop DJD. (The standard hip-extended method can actually mask true hip joint laxity). There are obvious advantages to screening dogs for hip joint laxity at 4 months of age (or six months, 1 year, etc.) as opposed to waiting until 2 years of age. The reliability of the PennHIP method slightly improves with age, with one year 1 year being marginally superior to 6 months, which in turn is marginally better than 4 months. For all dogs, we recommend when possible, to use the mean (average) of repeated evaluations to get a more reliable estimate of a dog's hip laxity status (phenotype).

 

A friend had a 4 month old evaluated with the Penn Hip scheme. He said the dog was lame for almost 2 weeks after the procedure. Is there proof that the distraction process won't cause a permanent stretching of the ligament that holds the ball in the socket?  That and anesthesizing a 4 month old to the depth needed to do that concerns me. I imagine part of the Penn Hip scheme is based on Dr. Riser's theory of palpating hips on very youg puppies. That didn't prove to be accurate in the long run. Some he said were normal didn't clear their xrays for OFA - done at 12 months at that time - and some that palpated loose got OFA certifications. I attended one of those sessions with a friend who took her litter there at 8 weeks. One puppy palpated so loose that it was put down then and there. The results for rest of the litter varied from good to questionable. They kept 2, placed the others with a contract that they had to be xrayed at 6 to 8 months. The final results didn't all  match Riser's palpation findings.

I understand why the desire to know about hips ASAP, I did my keepers at 6 months. But I don't understand why waiting 2 more months from 4 to 6  should be a big concern.

They look fine for 4 months old. How they'll look at 12 months is anybody's guess. I've refused to do xrays on pups this young for buyers who requested it. No way am I going to let a vet manipulate and intentionally try to cause subluxation in a 4 month old puppy under general anesthesia. No way. 

Both OFA and PennHip are as much about money as about hips and elbows.  I can get an X-ray of hips only with good positioning and no anesthetic done for $100 or slightly less.  If you want to see the X-ray I will give you a digitized version (the vet uses film) and you can draw your own conclusions.  I am sick of $300 to $400 for a job that should be much less and some vets charge the same for just X-rays ( without OFA submission ) as with so even a 12 month X-ray will cost $300+.  I need to know what my dog's hips look like and paying $400 for the OFA preliminary good is just stupid as it means nothing until you do the two year or older that really counts.

At this point, for as much as you can tell the hips look promising, but there is still a lot of skeleton growth to take place. Nonetheless, it would be possible to see quite a bit of negative stuff at this age, which isn't evident....still you need to have hips done again after a year of age. 

yep. thats why i wait till 12 month or so and do A stamp, i also dont like to wait 2 years, so A stamp works for me.
i will say the hips look decent right now.

had this done on my yellow lab recently/ dont know why you doit so soon....and the vet needs to tell you if there is somthing wrong.