A END OF THE COMMON SENSE AND GOOD DOGS. - Page 3

Sooo...If you can't use a Prong Collar or E-Collars...then what is the suggested Collar to use...Choke Chain...Fur Saver...etc?

Maybe it would be better for them to just tell you how to train your dog...

I think politics has a lot to do with this...I mean politics of a certain country...

i am certain that only using force is a poor way to train, I am positive that purely positive methods have their limits. This is not a debate on training methods, rather a debate on whether an international organization can police the methods utilized to train dogs. For public relation reasons everyone should be very selective on what they place in any media, such as utube. This proposal has so many weaknesses that it should be opposed by our national clubs. I want to be the last to hollower ''the sky is falling'' but this ''rule'' is stupidity

WE can see in this short time how opinions differs. Thus  what is most disturbing to me is this sentence:
"....using forbidden tools, such as pinch collar, electric collar or other abuse perpetrated on a dog,...."
Says who? Door is wide open. 
 

I always look for the reason  for political actions. What is the political reason for  this one? Clearly it is stemming form an agenda of  radical animal rights activists who claim  that ownership of pets is abuse by its self. They can not force anyone to pass law against ownership of pets,  thus they are using back door on more then one level. Shipping, kennel set up, mandatory neutering and on and on and on,... and now this attempt.
 If some are  convinced that positive only  is the only way to train the dogs then they can do it. Good luck with that. But who gives them right to tell to everyone  what other should believe and how to train?! I personally believe that besides genetics positive only training approach is a cause of just about all behavioral problem especially the ones involving unwanted aggression towards the owner or it causes some dogs to be overly protective of their owners. Now what? Should I force these believes on others by passing Draconian laws?  What happened to  personal responsibility, liberty and common sense. Thus this is not about who is right but this is about  control of others using in this case dogs we all love  and pulling on strings of cruelty as a means to forward their radical agenda.  
Prager Hans

by Hundmutter on 03 April 2013 - 09:35	Hundmutter Posts: 2063 Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 08:43 pm
Simply dreadful translation, Google (and Prager!).  Sorry Hans but it is;  it's really hard to make sense of anything more than the basic premise.  Also I'm a little suspicious - you posted on 3 April, but which day did you first see this item ?
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LOL is that your comment on this topic? It had been translated from French to Czech to English. Maybe you can do better job? Go for it. 
If you care to see when it was published then klick on the link. But it was Publikováno: 28.3.2013 8:00:00 ( ( March 8th 2013 8 am)

You mean 28 March.

I agree that this has to do with Animal Rights agenda. A little town up near Chicago passed a law that it is Illegal to put a bit in a horse's mouth. Evidently, the proposal was so absurd, that no one protested it, so it passed into law. That was about fourteen or fifteen years ago. Things are worse now because of the Internet. So, y'all who think something like this proposal can't take hold, think again. It's all about controlling peoples' lives, not about training. Once the ball is in motion, it will be a bitch to stop.

Really Joan? What town is that? I've never heard of anything of the sort and that's where I live.

this came after a video of edgar scherkel was made publik of a retrieve exercise whit e-collar, and yes breeders already are selecting easier dogs for sports thats why good service dogs are these days harder to find
i'm only questioning the fact if we are using "lesser" dogs in a breeding program what will the consequense be in 20years?
​a harder dog can produce sportdogs, i never met a hard dog comming out "made" dogs examples are plentyfull in sports already of dogs who perform on the field like a machiene but get scared of everything new.
i know nature is far from every breeding program but up untill now you still have breeders who use "alpha" males, males who would reproduce also in the wild because of their position in the pack
asumbly nature is a well oiled machiene they have the best genes to give to their offspring, what if almost all breeders now start using less strong dogs, dogs who wouldn't reproduce in a pack just to get easier sportdogs,
they don't have the best genes so what about healthissues in 2-3 generation???
i fear for the future now
 

Please keep  in mind that there is a strong notion out there now   that teaching dogs to bite at all is an abusive  thing to do to them.  Thus do not forget the clause "or other abuse perpetrated on a dog". 

Kyoto...history and the direction of the breed is with you...unfortunately most breeders and experts today have very little knowledge or interaction with requisites for working dogs....so the breed will continue to decrease in terms of working aptitude and will reach the status of the Poodle, another dog who's breeding is dictated by likes. We just have to try to hold on so the inevitable comes later rather than sooner.