Internet Sales - Page 2

"Every time I see that a top dog has been sold out of his/her country, the first thing I think is - Hmmm I wonder what health issue(s) he or she produced. What I really ask myself is why are WE so gullible? These dogs are for sale for a reason and most times it's not to give him a better home." I'd be careful about generalizing too much here. Sure there are dogs who are dumped. On the other hand, there are ethical breeders who sell healthy and good-producing top dogs who are healthy because a) the dog has already been added into their lines enough so that they don't need him any more for breeding b) the breeder's time needs to be devoted to the next generation c) a breeder in another country will be putting the dog to better use there d) the dog has reached the age where he's not being bred to as much as the young bucks coming up, and/or e) the dog has already achieved everything he can whether it be in working competitions or in shows and it's time to cash in (I guess this last reason might pose a problem for anti-capitalists, but...). Ask yourself this: despite some legitimate overall concerns about health, working ability etc. - and particular concerns about a given dog or line - what would American breeding be like if top-quality dogs hadn't been made available for American breeders to purchase over the years? And I'm talking both for show and for work.

The internet is of course more significant to communication than the combination of the television and the telephone. If nothing else, we can see and communicate in very near real time our wants and needs. Through the internet our tremendous world has become very small. That said, anyone with so-so dogs can build a very attractive website and anyone with the primo dogs can have at best a mediocre website or none at all. And the very established old-world kennels can elect to do business as they have always done-by word of mouth. So one can see very nearly all that is out there, yet may not see the best or the worst. That is where investigation of sources and the building of personal relationships is still so important. I think that we have all very nearly lost the desire and skill at building and maintaining personal relationships because of our newfound ease of anonymous communication. Very in-your-face and personal these days; we forget custom and manners and overlook differences in culture, and these are all bad things. The internet has of course given us more choices, for better or worse. Reputations can be quickly built and reinforced, or destroyed with a few clicks from a keyboard. Is the truth easier to find? I think that the REAL truth is just as elusive as it ever was, and that is where interpersonal skills still have much value. A dog is a living, breathing thing, perhaps not sentient but definitely possessing a personality, and for most of us not a commodity. Those of us who remember the GSD from our parent's and neighbour's dogs can probably best relate to this. How those GSD's were not only someone's pets, but wonderful companions and a source of solace when we had issues in our young lives. The dogs we ocassionally think of when we see one who is similar in appearance or behaviour. Does the increased commerce through the internet result in more fraud? Of course it does. But, it allows us to see perhaps what is most important-what is out there in our world as we know it. Bob-O

Question to me which will long term have more impact on GSD breed. 1. The breeders who use the internet to take advantage of people. or 2. A large number of honest serious breeders utilize to improve the breed? And what direction will these breeders take? Will they demand strong nerves etc.... Will looks be the most important thing? I believe you will see a return to serious breeders demanding strong nerves.

thanks bob... another excellent post as usual.

I agree DesertRangers. Since the truth (as we know it) is more immediately available, and we can easily cross-check and verify some health qualities, show results, scores, etc. I think that the market will dictate the quality as it always has, but more immediate as far as desired changes are concerned. For an investigative person, the BS is easier to sift through. BS breeders and BS dogs will of course never disappear, but those of us who are willing to investigate can at least satisfy ourselves that we did our research and then decide whether we should start building a personal relationship with the producer/provider of our next dog. We the customer can vote with our dollars in very near real time. I think the breeders who are already producing the good dogs will continue to do so-it's a character thing with most of them. Those who are producing so-so dogs will need to improve, and those who produce poor dogs will eventually fall aside. But again, the key word is "investgate" and that is where we prospective customers must practice due diligence if we wish to be sucessful. For us, nothing has changed. For the sellers/providers, everything has changed and they must reinforce and continually prove their worth. Bob-O

How many of you consider the GSD in America to be a healthy breed relatively free of genetic life threating diseases? What would you say is the average lifespan of a male? A female?

Blitzen, I don't think those questions can really be answered until someone does a large study of the records of say 500-1,000 veterinarians with 30+ years in practice. But I can certainly see how reading here could give us the impression the breed is in big trouble. My take is that it's much more likely for us to complain than to praise - just look at how many more threads are about "so-and-so breeder screwed me!" as opposed to "so-and-so breeder just sold me the best GSD I've ever had!" Add to that the fact that many people come here looking for advice on how to deal with health or temperament issues - mightn't there be a "silent majority" out there whose GSDs are healthy and sound that we just don't hear from? Just the nature of the beast - the human beast.

I believe a serious buyer will try to educate themselves with any method available. Internet, books, referals etc.People who want cheap and run to the first pet store or back yard breeder will buy from , anywhere no matter what. I would love to see the AKC, Vets, trainers offering to educate. Just to share a story, a friend asked her vet to recommend a reputable German Shepherd breeder. Well, he referred her to a client. Dogs are not OFA's, Penn hip or anything. The litter produced 4 with heart mumers, and 1 with an undershot jaw. Well my friend piked a pup with a mummer and the breeder disclosed the fact, so they took the pup with the undershot jaw. They explained the breeder was honest about the heart condition. So, they paid $800 for a pup who was loaded with worms, and has trouble eating. Motto of this story: some people just can't be educated.

I hope your friend switches vets, but not before going to the one who made the recommendation and giving him or her an earful.

I've started a new thread on health status, P59. For some reason I'm having problems today getting my messages to where I want them to be. I'm interested in the opinions of those who read this board. You are correct about the overall tone on every GSD list I read. Dogs with HD, EPI,temperament issues, young dogs dropping dead from a heart defects, aneuryisms, torsion. Dogs being sold to naive people in the US and elsewhere after they are known to produce serious health problems in their progeny. I understand some were on the first plane out of Germany after the Sieger due to their being oversized. True? Not true? Let's try to find out. I myself had horrible health problems with my first GSD and he only lived to be 7 1/2. I've had large breed dogs since 1958 and never lost one to cancer and all but one lived to be at least 12 years or age, they were not GSD's. I am hoping that these stats are skewed and that this breed is a lot more healthy than it seems to be. I have a concern that more breeders seem to be far more interested in conformation and drive than in using healthy dogs in their breeding programs. Please prove me wrong, I really hope to buy another GSD one of these days.