Is Electric collar necessary to train precision? - Page 19

I do not need an e-collar to get speed, precision and attitude :-). See for yourself :-)
All the best
Ulf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J0nqYSfEoc

...and I do not need it for control in bite work either :-)
All the best
Ulf

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaXzuDrGojY

That's a nice a video of a dog that is already trained.
Do you have any videos of how you taught your dog to out?
Was he ever given a correction for not outing?
What did you do when your dog was being taught the back transport and he started to forge?
Did you give him any corrections when this occurred?

I am also wondering what happens to your dog if the helper puts a sleeve on his right arm?

is this abour corrections or needing an ecollar? or are we free to reframe every debate so that we "win" ?

BTW, nice videos Ulf

zdog,
Johan made this about corrections quite awhile ago.
Go back and read and then hopefully you will make comments that apply.

I made my comments that would apply way back at the beginning, I skipped the middle because I'm sure it wasn't much different than the thousand other identical threads out there.  And Ulf made his comment very specific in relation to the thread title and showed his work with his dog with speed and precision without an ecollar.  Maybe I'm not the one making comments that don't apply?

Johan,
I do not think that just because someone uses a correction collar, (prong, electric, or otherwise) that their training is focused on corrections.
I use an e-collar some of the time with my dog. Probably less than 1%, but, when I do it works and it is rarely to punish my dog.

zdog,
Which comments did you make that apply way back at the beginning?
To me, this really is just self-aggrandizing by saying you think you are a great trainer and everbody else can f... off!
You may have noticed that no one commented on what you posted because it did nothing to further what was turning out to be a good discussion.

by zdog on 12 February 2013 - 21:02	zdog Posts: 757 Joined: Sat Jun 03, 2006 03:38 pm
How's this for an answer? I can train any dog you put in front of me to a level that I expect and appreciate with or without an ecollar.  I don't give shit what anybody really think about it either.  When I have to live my life by your values, let me know.  Then maybe I'll care.  Until then I'll be happy with my dogs :) I've seen enough good and bad by my standards regardless of the tools used.

Other than saying Johan made some valid points, most of your comments have just been snipes at people.

As for the questions I had for Ulf, in his second post he mentions control work.
I am the person that initially brough up control work, so, I am guessing that was directed at me.
I asked him questions based on how the thread had evolved towards corrections in training and not just the e-collar.

Why some people firmly believe and think that training for sport is the ultimate test of training abilities? I train dog for many purposes like S&R, LE, private people ( Obedience protection problem solving), detection,  ....and even so I was competing is PSA and restarted little  SchH training   it is only important to me in order to broaden my training horizon. But  I would not look at sport training  in any way as the ultimate training. 
Most competition dogs are, or  can get by,  being social idiots while being high level competition dogs and that is not what dogs should be all about. 

OGBS,as you said yourseld you focus on how to correcting the dog for different unwanted behavoiurs, like forging in the backtransport that many struggles with. Instead of thinking so you can think the opposite, how can I  get the dog to understand the right behaviour that not involves forging. Back transport can be breaked down for example, more variations than one I suppose, if I rember right a tip I got without corrections was with a clicker and ball first, then on decoy. When the dog is in right position and look intensly on decoy/ball and at the same time have contact with his shoulders on my left leg you click and decoy rewards with ball, they should also stay calm when moving my right leg, only move forward when moving my left. Then remove ball and only decoy. This makes the dog understand that going forward is not the way to get to the goal. There are probably other solutions but this makes is easy for the dog to understand instead of trying to stop the forging with corrections.