What is a King Shepherd - Page 3

Rico, when you say 'upperlarge' do you mean 'oversized' (larger than the breed standard)? Or just that he is at the upper limit of size according to  the breed standard?

I'm not going to take sides, but will just present my own personal experience. I've always been a diehard GSD fan until three years ago when I reluctantly agreed to adopt a Shiloh Shepherd that needed a home due to his owner passing away. To date he as no health issues and has an awesome temperament.  By GSD standards he lacks drive, but makes an excellent companion and therapy dog. My good friend, to my utter dismay at the time, bought a King Shepherd puppy about 10 years ago. The dog has a fantastic temperament, plenty of drive and perfect health to date. My last three GSDs? WL male with severe HD and ED, SL male with allergies, breast cancer and temperament issues (got him at 15 months so not sure if the cause of temperament issues is environmental, genetic or both) , rescue LSC female with DM at 5 years of age. All if this said, I'm not sure what my next dog will be. It just has to have the qualities I'm looking for in a dog and will likely be an adult rescue. 

Sunsilver I could be much less tactful about ASL's !!
From my perspective over the 60s to 80s there was
not much to choose between what ASL winning dogs
had become (as in the difference from their imported
German forebears)  and the way UK 'alsatians' were.
Neither, to my mind or interpretation of the original
German Standard, looked as they should.  And the
reports of temperament problems in both were very
disturbing.  So I was one of the - perhaps 'minority' -
fanciers over here who were sure the dogs continuing
to be produced in their originating country  were far
superior.  In looking at America I make exception for
the majority of working/sports specimens, who were
all closer to the original.  That wasn't quite the same
here, where Obedience types were a real mixture of
lines.   As far as I am aware, a large number of dogs
which have gone into producing  (maybe not the proper
original Shilohs ?) but certainly those who jumped on
the bandwagon afterwards, AND the Kings etc, have
owed just as much to ASL type as to German / International.
So the bigger dogs may not have the same shape as the
ASL dogs (although I strongly suspect me or Susie or
whoever could STILL make all or most of 'em look more
'sloped'  if we stood 'em up !!!) - and the so-called Shiloh
I had in the work pack up till I left last year,  has the
weirdest pelvic structure I ever set eyes on ! - but they are
all still at risk of carrying the genetics for poor hips.  Any
one who sells them on the basis that they are HD free
cannot really guarantee that.   Not to mention some INCREASED
risk of Arthritis, and Bloat, just due to the fact they are so big.

Staarcharr  :   Personal experience is just that;  it isn't a yardstick to judge
a whole breed by.

My own personal experience:   This dog :  has other faults,  but has 3:3 (6)
hip total.   10 years old, very little in the way of aches or stiffness.  Very
German breeding.  Previous dog:  3/4 German breeding (tail female 'good'
English), international type, dreadful hips radiographically =  29:31 (60).  
Lived to almost 14 yrs, didn't go lame / 'off' her hips, beautiful gait in the
showring, still getting the odd prize as a Veteran,  her back end only started
to wobble past 11 years, ok so she became arthritic by then, but so do many
dogs with good hips by that age.

Doesn't prove anything  (except perhaps that some Germans sold some
crap puppies to people abroad who didn't know better ?)

 but they are all still at risk of carrying the genetics for poor hips. Anyone who sells them on the basis that they are HD free
cannot really guarantee that.

 

True, dat. But the SSDCA (breed founder's club) is REALLY making an effort to eliminate genetic defects:

http://www.shilohshepherds.info/geneticTaskForce/   http://www.shilohshepherds.info/healthSurveyUpdate.htm    
http://www.shilohshepherds.info/siteMapHips.htm

You will not even get permanent registration papers for your dog until you have submitted a detailed questionairre about the dog's structure, colour and temperament. Breeding dogs must have passing hips and also pass a temperament test.

Believe me, they ARE trying to produce a better dog!

Good for them. How many dogs total we talkin' about here ?

No idea....I think the totals are mentioned somewhere in the articles.

BTW, the links on hip dysplasia are really interesting reading!

The latest development is the club has purchased a Holter monitor, as too many dogs were dropping dead abruptly due to heart arrhythmias. The goal is to test all breeding stock for heart issues before breeding, as that is the only way of catching this inheritable defect.

No doubt this 'sudden death' syndrome has come from American lines. They are notorious for it!

My female GSD is a Dalla grand-daughter. He died quite suddenly at age  9, and his sire, R-Man died at 6!

Now if only the Shiloh folk would devote the same effort to getting less spooky temperaments....   I think Tina made a big mistake there!

Oh well that 'proves'  the big fella can't be a real Shiloh;
LoL.  He has such a daft & soppy temperament.  He is a
bit of a bully with other dogs and distinctly picky about
which ones he really gets on with,  but no real tempera-
ment or 'nerves' problems.  I have a couple of pics - will
try and download them. 

Hundmutter, As with any breed, temperaments can vary. There are many Shilohs with very stable temperaments and strong nerves and mine is one of them. Unfortunately as of late more and more temperament issues have become evident in the Shilohs, but that is being addressed, however it's not something that can be fixed so easily and quickly.

As for my experience with breeds and health uses, you are right that it doesn't prove anything, but it still influences my thinking and I still believe facts are important. I've heard too many times here on this board that the Shilohs have more health issues than the GSDs and have poor temperaments and no drive, hence my reluctance to adopt one. Everything I heard has been false except for the fact that my dog doesn't have the drive a typical GSD has, but that suits me just fine at this to time in my life. He still has enough protection drive as few people can attest to who came into our yard unannounced. He backed them into a corner and stared them down and held them there until I said it was, yet kids can crawl over him and he brings the elderly in a local nursing home a lot of pleasure.

My oldest male GSD, Zane (5 years old, DOB 25/12/2007) is oversized. He isn't a King or Shiloh Shepherds. H eis pure GSD. His littermates were and are now as far as I know towards the higher end of the breed standard but Zane just kep growing. No apparent reasn for it.

He is straight/square backed, no slope (even when stacked), no banana shape etc. He is possibly the healthiest GSD I've ever owned. Very loyal, protective but also loves kids, is sociable and I couldn't wish for more from him.

Zane weighs 58Kg and stands at 104cm to the wihers. He isn't overweight for his size/height. He has well defined muscle structure/tone and no visible fat on his body.

I agree with whoever saisd they're not everyone's cup of tea. I've been stopped in the street before now by people asking wht the hell I'm playing at having a "dog like that". They soon calm down when I explain he just kept growing.

I enjy having Zane and would like tot hink that any GSD I own in the future will be on the larger side. However, if they're not, so be it. There's no advantage to having an oversized dog. After all, with the best pedigree in the world, I couldn't show Zane because of his size.