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by Paul Garrison on 29 December 2012 - 22:12
I love the extreme drive dogs, they may be harder to live with but much more enjoyable to train. I do not want I just prey dog or a just defense dog or just any one drive I want a balanced dog with all of the drives real high. I am not a house dog person but on occasion my wife needs a dogs in the house. If left unattended her Mal would take every blind off of the windows then when she was finished on the kitchen counters she would knock over the TV. What I do is put the dog on a down and it takes care of the problem. She learns to relax and the more often we do it, the faster she relaxes. Work with the dog you own but when you get a new one, get a good fit for you.
Paul
Paul
by aaykay on 30 December 2012 - 03:12
Jim, your dog definitely has the nerves to make all of his considerable drives, usable. That is an excellent dog !
by Minicus on 30 December 2012 - 04:12
From what I understand many of Fero vom Zeuterner Himmelreich progeny possessed this "screamer" trait. I also have a GSD that goes back to Yoschy,Troll, and Fero. I always just thought she was being very vocal but was told by knowledgeable GSD person that it comes from her pedigree lines seemed to be a strong characteristic trait
by aaykay on 30 December 2012 - 04:12
BlackThornGSD: My Bi-color boy's breeding is of Czech/Slovak and DDR (with some Eastern herding lines in it) even further out.
Linebred 5-3 on Car z Kostolianskej Cesty, who has progeny/descendants in very high numbers in both the Policia kennels in Slovakia and also in WUSV etc. Loosely line-bred 6,6-4 on Titus z Pohranicni Straze.
Still a very, very young fellow, but his ability to settle down and be absolutely calm when pressured, but explosively act when needed, is just amazing....and I have had several good dogs, both current and in the past. Very, very clear-headed while being seriously "civil". His focus and persistence when after something is top-notch. I think I hit the jackpot getting him !
Linebred 5-3 on Car z Kostolianskej Cesty, who has progeny/descendants in very high numbers in both the Policia kennels in Slovakia and also in WUSV etc. Loosely line-bred 6,6-4 on Titus z Pohranicni Straze.
Still a very, very young fellow, but his ability to settle down and be absolutely calm when pressured, but explosively act when needed, is just amazing....and I have had several good dogs, both current and in the past. Very, very clear-headed while being seriously "civil". His focus and persistence when after something is top-notch. I think I hit the jackpot getting him !
by Six13 on 30 December 2012 - 04:12
Very interesting topic. My female also has Yoschy and Troll and is also a screamer :-) the minute she sees a sleeve you can't she starts barking/ screaming. It's most annoying.
by aaykay on 30 December 2012 - 05:12
Ibrahim: especially in what I call as dogs "loaded in prey".....the sport-dogs being the worst from that perspective, with uncappable/out-of-control runaway drives,
I am not as conversant on these things as Hans or Gustav or Slamdunc but in a nutshell, what it boils down to is as follows (I believe either Gustav or Hans explained it elsewhere, which is roughly as below):
Essentially, a working dog needs high drives to do its tasks effectively. However, the high drives need to be equally balanced by high enough nerves. Higher drives with "less high" nerves (throwing the equation out of balance) will lead to what is known as "drive leakage", where the dog is unable to cope with the high drive levels or "runaway drives" with not adequate nerves to absorb and channel the drives well. Thus with high-drives/"less-high" or weak-nerves, you now have a dog that is not able to cope with his high drives and is thus a nervous wreck which is highly reactive and unable to contain himself, making the drives utterly useless in "real work" or in "real life" (say inside a house with a family) but appears really flashy out in a sport-field.......I see this in a lot of "sport dogs", which are directly kenneled as soon as the "action" on the sport-field is done, and definitely not allowed into a home and among family members, children etc. Breed these animals and you pass on those weak/in-adequate nerves and runaway drives onto future generations.
My analogy of these would be as follows:
High drive with bedrock nerves = Navy SEAL, who can be utterly calm and focused while participating and indulging in explosive, hard action against the hardest of adversaries, while being a calm and "normal" family person back home. The "high drives" are purely deployed when in training or in actual action, and are "kept capped" in normal life.
High drive with low nerves = Street thug whose anger level is barely contained and always at the bursting point, and beats up weaker people at the drop of a hat, and simply cannot function as a family person. The "drives" are "deployed" everywhere - in the street, in his home and with everyone he meets, with no strength of nerves to keep it contained or channeled well.
I am not as conversant on these things as Hans or Gustav or Slamdunc but in a nutshell, what it boils down to is as follows (I believe either Gustav or Hans explained it elsewhere, which is roughly as below):
Essentially, a working dog needs high drives to do its tasks effectively. However, the high drives need to be equally balanced by high enough nerves. Higher drives with "less high" nerves (throwing the equation out of balance) will lead to what is known as "drive leakage", where the dog is unable to cope with the high drive levels or "runaway drives" with not adequate nerves to absorb and channel the drives well. Thus with high-drives/"less-high" or weak-nerves, you now have a dog that is not able to cope with his high drives and is thus a nervous wreck which is highly reactive and unable to contain himself, making the drives utterly useless in "real work" or in "real life" (say inside a house with a family) but appears really flashy out in a sport-field.......I see this in a lot of "sport dogs", which are directly kenneled as soon as the "action" on the sport-field is done, and definitely not allowed into a home and among family members, children etc. Breed these animals and you pass on those weak/in-adequate nerves and runaway drives onto future generations.
My analogy of these would be as follows:
High drive with bedrock nerves = Navy SEAL, who can be utterly calm and focused while participating and indulging in explosive, hard action against the hardest of adversaries, while being a calm and "normal" family person back home. The "high drives" are purely deployed when in training or in actual action, and are "kept capped" in normal life.
High drive with low nerves = Street thug whose anger level is barely contained and always at the bursting point, and beats up weaker people at the drop of a hat, and simply cannot function as a family person. The "drives" are "deployed" everywhere - in the street, in his home and with everyone he meets, with no strength of nerves to keep it contained or channeled well.
by Ibrahim on 30 December 2012 - 06:12
aaykay,
Thanks for the reply and the explanation, I can't imagine it could be versed better than you did and at the same time easy enough to understand, thank you
Thanks for the reply and the explanation, I can't imagine it could be versed better than you did and at the same time easy enough to understand, thank you
by guddu on 30 December 2012 - 12:12
Thugs and Seals are easy to understand..
by BlackthornGSD on 30 December 2012 - 17:12
I think it's not just inadequate nerve strength. Maybe a combination of thresholds and nerves--but I've seen too many dogs who have trouble with capping who have pretty sound nerves. And thresholds aren't 1:1 with nerves.
Christine
Christine
by joanro on 30 December 2012 - 17:12
That's very true, Christine. However, very high prey drive can over ride weak nerves, so there is the conundrum; but there is still the same screaming. Lol
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