14 week old GS pup bilaterally cryptorchid... - Page 1

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by Killshot on 09 November 2012 - 23:11

...and purchased from very reputable breeder in Minnesota.  I am a onetime previous owner of a phenomenal GS and have always had 2 hounds --  I found that a GS and wolfhound or Newfie made for a great pair.  I have been thru the cryptorchid wars before (in Wolfhounds this is often accompanied by insidious cardiomyopathies and early heartbreak) and had planned on possibly breeding the dog thru the breeder (as we paid premium for his alpha male from the most recent litter).  My questions are:

1.  Any experience with bHCG injections to enhance descension?  There is some literature if given between 14-16 weeks that this might definitely promote descension.

2.  Although my contract warranties hip and elbow health, there was no explicit cryptorchid language.  Nonetheless, he was delivered at 9 weeks cryptorchid.  Do I have any grounds to request any satisfaction (partial refund, payment for cost of orchiectomy or orchiectomies, etc)?

3.  Will this GS have any higher incidence of anything else (as in wolfhounds which I know a great deal more about)?  I explicitly told the breeder of my cryptorchid experience with my previous wolfhounds but did not write that explicitly into the contract.  I am unlikely to part with this guy (Luther), but I am a little disappointed based on what we paid and expectations.

Thx!



DDRCzechFan

by DDRCzechFan on 10 November 2012 - 00:11

If you specifically told the breeder you wanted a breeding dog/show quality dog and they gave you a pup with an undecended testical, that's pretty low. 

If you never specified you wanted a dog for anything other than pet, I STILL think the breeder should've had the grace to inform you, "Hey, you'll need to have this puppy neutered, he is not to be bred and or showed" in which case it would've probably prompted questions from you, only naturally.

Don't know the breeder's side of it, but I'd be mad, they sold you a pup with a defect (which may correct itself or may not) but you STILL, regardless of your intent for the pup, should've been informed.
Bhaugh

by Bhaugh on 10 November 2012 - 01:11

I would request a replacement. The surgery is pricy to do and you should neuter him when time. Retaining the testicles could lead to a higher incidence of cancer. Lets just see how reputable the breeder is now that you have a cryptorchid dog.

by Killshot on 10 November 2012 - 03:11

Thx for the feedback -- I did indeed mention that I would love to train him well and start a line of progeny if he turned out to be the stud I was told he was to be.  There was never any disclaimer on my part that he would never be anything but a "pet".  I emailed him today with the 14 week gonad report, and he has not responded.  I am hoping that we can work something out, but at the very least, this little boy was nto worth what I paid (show quality price).
trixx

by trixx on 10 November 2012 - 04:11

i would give  the pup just a little bit longer as maybe they will drop, but by 4 to 5 months if they are not down then he should be fixed and you should get a full replacement, if you brought  a breeding/show quallty puppy thats what you should get. i will say if its not in the contract most breeder wont replace , unless you had  an agreement. i guess i would talk with the breeder maybe he will work with you. selling a puppy at 9 weeks at that age not all  testie will fall yet.

by Nans gsd on 10 November 2012 - 16:11

Give them more time to drop;  they are either there or not.  I WOULD NOT NEUTER HIM UNTIL FULL MATURITY.  Maybe 2 or around that age.  OR another option, return him now.  BOL  Nan
Bhall

by Bhall on 10 November 2012 - 16:11

Yes, they can still drop. However, I check testicles before pups go home and I inform my customers if one or both have not dropped. Every breeder should check before the pups go home. I will also cover the extra cost for neutering. 

by GinaBel on 10 November 2012 - 17:11

I believe that if you can not even palpate them within the inguinal canal, they are unlikely to drop. Even if they do drop at 5-6 months old...I do not believe that this dog should be bred, as there is a risk that future puppies will be cryptorchid. This is an inheritable defect and should be avoided.

by Killshot on 10 November 2012 - 18:11

Thank you all a bunch.  he did respond and offer to replace, but I am bound to wait a minimum of 6 mos and will not neuter until 2 years (I am an internist and do the whole bioidentical hormone thing with my patients and have never neutered my IWs or Newfs and they live longer than avg and are healthier).

I may try a brief trial of bHCG 500 IUs sub q 2x/week x 4 doses this next 2 weeks and agree that he is not breeding stock as of now. 

I will report back to this very responsive community!  Best,

Chris Foley MD

by Rasenhof on 10 November 2012 - 21:11

I have bred GSD's for 50 years and have never heard of any monorchids much less cryptorchids dropping the missing testicle(s).  I can palpate the male pups by 8 weeks of age and find the testicles.  I did one litter with about 4 or 5 pups and sold them.  One buyer called me when his pup was about 4-5 mos of age that his vet could only find one testicle.  They brought the pup to me and yep only one.  I probably checked one pup twice and this one not at all or missed.  We agreed upon 1/2 price for the pup.  Papers were returned until neutered.  I never heard from them again.  The 1/2 price was less than an unregistered pup would have been.  Oh well.  Now with the limited registration I reduce the price because of the missing testicle, tell the people about the testicle, give them a limited registration.  And so far everything has been OK.  The last one,  not my lines,  was very handsome and Ch sired.  The owner called me that someone at the park wanted to breed to the dog.  Dog was now 2 yrs of age.  The owner noticed the limited registration and called me about changing it.  Then I remembered the missing testicle.  The owner had forgoten.  He said, of course the dog should not be bred and we were all happy.  Limited registrations work.  Years ago a man gave his monorchid pup all sorts of chemicals with no results.  I think the breeder should refund some of the money.  Or take a replacement pup and sell it to make up the difference.  Good luck    Alice  

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