Chinese Dogs in German Sieger Show - Page 4

[[What about those who buy dogs from them?]] they are part of the elite or at least emerging upper middle class. The average annual income in China is about 1/6th of that of the average American. That is average, which does not mean that everyone is making even that, or does the average American you know make 42grand a year? I doubt it. Same goes for the Chinese. Many make a lot less than the average. Many of the pups I have seen advertised from China are priced between a quarter and half of what the average Chinese would make in a year. For the majority of the people there such dogs are unobtainable. Those who can afford such a pet will know its value. You don't just trash your Mercedes either, you look after it. Here or in China. [[end up on the collar of a coat]] How ignorant to think that German GSD are especially exported for fur production. It would be a lot cheaper for fur buyers to go to many of the commercial US breeders (ie http://www.prisonersofgreed.org/Pennsylvania-kennels-info.html) and US dog auctions (http://www.awawatchdog.com/0105/index.htm) like you find them in the US galore, where these dogs can be had for a fistful of dollars, not a bag full. Does it make a difference where they end up if unwanted? Not like the US is doggy haven. The final outcome for an unwanted dog sadly is always the same. [[I'm sure that some in Germany and elsewhere would prefer to sell a fading Va to China rather than to a country like the US]] LOL. You are quite the piece. There are probably far more of the rich and super rich in the US who have the buying power to buy any price dog from Germany or elsewhere, but prefer to spend their $$ on other toys and trophies, or prefer to campaign dogs for hundreds of thousands of $$ in the AKC circuit. Never to see the dog, just have some handler drag the poor thing all across the country in hopes to see "their" dog at Westminster, and get a change to mingle with 'their' kind for a few hours. There are lots of VAs in the US. If you'd bother to look. Kevin, Biggi, Yasko... and many other top dogs. The list would get way too long. But you are not breeding GSD anyways so of course you would not know. And its not that hard to ship a female to Germany to get her bred so that you can take advantage of any lines at any time you wish. In the US few people are so lucky to be within driving distance of the stud of their choice and have to ship anyways. So if you have to ship anyways, why not ship to Germany? The serious breeders from all over the world will ship their females to Germany and utilize what is available when it is available. The whiners and wannabees just keep whining and complaining. That will never change. [[Stick to the facts, are dogs sold to China really going to an evironment where they will be safe?]] yes the US is a VERY safe place for animals: Number of cats and dogs entering US shelters each year: 6-8 million (HSUS estimate) Number of cats and dogs reclaimed by owners from US shelters each year: Between 600,000 and 750,000 -- 30% of dogs and 2-5% of cats entering shelters (HSUS estimate) Percentage of dogs in US shelters who are purebred: 25% (HSUS estimate) Number of cats and dogs euthanized by US shelters each year: 3-4 million (HSUS estimate) Note: that does not include pets that are put down by vets, or by their owners without the help of any vet, or that just perish.

[[It's about the lack of animal rights in that country. ]] In the last few years people all over the 'Western World' lost countless animals as government authorities ordered the killing of hundreds of thousands of birds, cows and pigs, whether they were lifestock or pet animals (4H etc). If you were in the quarantine zone due to a few cases of Avian Flu, Foot and Mouth, etc, all animals posing a 'risk' in that area had to go. Pets and all. All for the sake of the mighty $$ so that these industries would not be threatened. *** Poultry represent 95% of animals slaughtered in the United States, but they're N O T covered by the Humane Methods of Slaughter Act. (HSUS). *** Overall, in 2003 China slaughtered more than 10.5 billion animals for their flesh, while the US slaughtered more than 9.5 billion animals, not including aquatic animals in either case. (FAOSTATS) Population China: just over 1300 Million. Population USA: just under 300 Million. *** This is how the 'civilized world' treats their animals: http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery.htm (Caution: graphic!) Very interesting site. Maybe you should have a closer look at how your burger is treated before it hits your table: "The cattle were supposed to be dead before they got to Moreno. But too often they weren't. They blink. They make noises, he said softly. The head moves, the eyes are wide and looking around. Still Moreno would cut. On bad days...: http://www.factoryfarming.com/beef.htm Read it and then please give me more judgement on how other countries should treat their animals.

Oh and D.H., I haven't forgotten about your "thing" - just waiting for someone to get back to me.

Whatever, do what you want. You have to live with yourself.

Very upsetting--the cattle story--had no idea. Just another horrible image in my mind. Anyway--Now that the USA has been thoroughly rebuked as being a totally hypocritical and uncaring nation, I'd like to say something. Americans are a funny sort. We're not much into politics, and without exception, take our rights totally for granted. Most don't even know who's in office at any given moment. BUT--You want to see a bunch of people come together real fast if they feel something is wrong; and, also, be quite verbal about it. I'd like to see some cop come down my street with a club threatening my dog (even under executive orders). There would be hell to pay, starting with him. D.H.--You said on another thread "So the Chinese are a few decades behind us now. If that had been me walking my dog they would not be able to clobber him to death without going through me first. Had I been visiting then my dogs would either not have been touched or it (or rather I) would have provoked an international incident. These people, who have lived in oppression for so long were only able to look on and do nothing and go home heartbroken". Point being for me---Sell the GSD's to China in a few decades. It seems a more prudent compromise.

I wonder if anyone demanding that others cease selling GSDs to China are willing to take their protest to the next level in their own lives: that is, boycotting ALL trade with China, including their own. (I note that we don't seem to have any owners of VA-producing kennels here for this discussion, and so it doesn't seem that any of the boycott-callers have either sold or even produced a dog that a wealthy Chinese person would pay the big bucks to obtain. Funny how it's always those with nothing to lose taking a "moral" position and telling others not to make money!). Yep, that's right - stop buying Made in China goods altogether, that'll teach that horrible culture to stop acting so cruelly to their animals! All those clothes, consumer electronics, toys, everything in Wal-Mart and half the stuff in Lowe's and Home Depot, whatever, it doesn't matter if it's essential to simple daily living - if it's made in China, it's not for you! And take it even further into your place of employment - tell the boss you're not going to use your computer anymore because Microsoft didn't just sell software to him, it also sold software to...gasp!...the Chinese! Hey, if you really want to make a statement, you'll have to commit to making some sacrifices too. Like the clothes on your back and your job...but it's all for a good cause, right?

P59, since I learned of the dog fur trade in China, I have stopped purchasing anything from this country and Walmart is now only used at the front door with puppy socialization. You bring me to an idea that maybe a couple of flyers during the puppy socialization may make more caring dog people avoid this particular store. I wanted to buy a nice silver picture frame for a young lady graduating from High School. Everything "made in China". I opted to giving cash and told the young lady why. So, your idea is not new. I will not discuss my opinions on this post. I think it is mixing too many things in one pot. The thought of dogs/cats living under deplorable conditions being skinned alive is enough for me to make a permanent change. I do not condemn the rich culture of the Chinese. But I do not agree to the carnage that has occurred as well as the promoted fur trade in pet animals. I am not a radical and I am not mixing in other topics such as the deplorable conditions our farm animals are going through. I am only thinking about one thing and that is my love of dogs and cats. Companion animals that have been domesticated for our pleasure, companionship. It is a culture clash. But one I feel very strongly about. America is a very young country and there are many active people engaged in rescue, animal shelters etc. Just like with anywhere else, education is the key in limiting reproduction of unwanted animals. The will is there and the government of the US does not promote the clubbing of animals nor the fur trade using the pelts of pets.

I no longer buy anything manufactured in China nor do I shop at Wal Mart. I am learning that many people are not aware that the made in China products they buy may contain fur from dogs or cats. Otherwise, they may not purchase items such as Boyd's Bears which used to be manufactured here in PA.

Demanding? I, for one, would never presume to demand anything---I suggested waiting for a time when the Chinese government could adopt a more animal-friendly position. You know what, p59teitel--Do you even hear yourself? "telling others not to make money" Is that what's important to you? Win the debate so that people can make money with no regrets? Too great a price for the dog to pay. They clubbed to death how many hundreds of thousands of dogs? I'm not going to boycott China. Too many good and decent people trying to squeak out a living, (although, I won't be purchasing a winter coat with a fur collar, labeled Chinese raccoon, this year). But, I must say, to sell dogs to a country where they have just killed so many cherished pets seems a bit irresponsible to me. This debate could go on and on--people will do whatever they want, no matter what is said. As to your remark about no VA-producing kennels coming forth in this discussion---That says it all. You lose the debate, hands down. Let's hope the dogs don't have to be losers, also.

Good point about boycotting products made in China, LMH. I hadn't thought about it in that way. As always, your posts to this thread are thoughtful and well said.