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by crhuerta on 05 March 2010 - 00:03
I certainly hope the "native" wolves are re-introduced........Nature has an eco-system, we screw with it too often.
by LAVK-9 on 05 March 2010 - 01:03
by CrysBuck25 on 05 March 2010 - 02:03
I based my info off of several things, though, Lav...I have a friend who spends a great deal of time on horseback in the mountains of Idaho, Washington and Montana. He spends more than 10,000 miles a year on horseback...He has seen many of the kills. I have another friend who is active in hunting and has also seen many kills...deer just torn apart, and not eaten. Female elk with their vulvas or abdominal cavities ripped open, their fetuses torn out and eaten, but otherwise, the carcasses are uneaten. The list goes on.
How do they know that these are wolf kills? There are signs...Hair, scat, tracks, style of the kill...
Still, there are many folks who don't live in these areas, who believe that all wolves are the same, and they are not. There are several different types...The Mexican red wolf, for example, is very different from the Canadian, and the Canadian is much larger than the native gray wolf from this area. Animals adapt to survive in the climates in which they live...The winters in Canada (up in the north) are very intense, there is a lot of snow, very cold weather, and a smaller wolf would be hard pressed to survive, trying to kill moose and other large game in those conditions. So the larger body emerges, better able to stay warm, better able to bound through the deep snow, stronger to take on the large prey. Now move that larger wolf down to a climate where he doesn't have to battle the deep snow or devastating cold...He can kill more prey more often, since there is a great deal more of it, and his hunting habits change. That's readily seen by those living in the areas where these wolf packs are ranging.
I think if I were the Fish and Wildlife Service, I'd probably want to fudge on the elk numbers too...Wouldn't want the taxpayers to see the real results of the wolf introduction. Can't say "reintroduction" since this particular variety, subspecies, whatever you want to call it, is not native. The known numbers on the elk say that in one area (sorry, can't think of exact location) the numbers dropped from over 10,000 to barely 2,,000, and there are those who say that that number is inflated substantially. What is known is that the wolves are destroying the elk and moose in the areas they are foraging, they are reproducing very strongly, and they are not having the necessary mortality to keep their numbers in check.
Several places I have read have stated that wolves can sustain a forty percent annual mortality and still thrive. There are those who are very against the idea of any wolves being killed, and I used to be, too. Until I realized that there is more to it than wolf versus man. It's about varieties that are native versus non-native. It's about adaptability. And it's about the future of the prey species in the areas affected.
Crys
by leeshideaway on 05 March 2010 - 03:03
The people that do not like wolves are full of bad news and exaggerated reports.
They tell their points of view to everyone and before you know it rumors become fact.
There was a small pack of 4 or 5 in UP Mich that went by the place I was at one night. I was about 5 miles from any neighbor.
I know how many because I can count tracks. Their tracks were in a dirt road 25 feet from the cabin and there was a light rain that night. (perfect tracks)
The next morning I followed their tracks about 1 mile to a deer carcass. (also had two GSDs)
Nothing but skin and bones was left.
A few days later a local person told me that the wolf pack was over 20 and killing everything in sight for fun and not eating what they kill and should be shot. He was mad that they were protected. I told him what I saw and he got angry at me because I questioned what he was saying.
A few months later a DNR guy stopped by and mentioned he's keeping track of a small pack - 4 or 5 and was trying to find any sighting info. I told him what I saw.
The fact is hunters kill very many deer in the UP (and elsewhere) and so do severe winters.
There are less hunters today than twenty years ago.
I see more deer now than twenty years ago - even with wolves.
I like going to the UP and go often - this is just my report of what I know - first hand.
This happened around 5 years ago. (not sure of the exact date)
I do not know about other states.
Lee
by darylehret on 05 March 2010 - 04:03
Fact is, wolf population has been growing at an alarming rate, and the parks elk herds declining at an equally alarming rate. Crys was mentioning the park's northern herd, which declined 77% since 2005 numbers (from 9,545 to 2,236) while wolf population has increased over 100% in the same time frame. It only takes the entire wolf population about four years to double in size, despite the usual 20% mortalities due to pack rivaly and disease! It doesn't take a genius to do this kind of math, to see where that's heading. So much for natural "balance". It is also absolutely true that wolves will kill for "fun", without consuming their prey. Here's an account from last June of 120 sheep preyed on AT ONE TIME by three members of the Centennial pack, who are likely the same wolves who took 26 others in the same field just the month prior.
To give you an idea of the SIZE of the Canadian gray wolf, this one below was killed (not hunted) by a government trapper in Idaho last June for killing livestock. The "native" wolf of the region is extinct, there is no "reintroduction". This has basically been a violation of the Endangered Species Act by our own federal government for having introduced a non-native species at the behest of wolf lovers. Of course, it depends on how you define "species", because a pitbull is the same species really, as are all canus lupus. So, wouldn't that have made the killing of any dog during that time a federal offense?
by LAVK-9 on 05 March 2010 - 04:03
I have a hard time beliving that they are killing for the "fun" of it. They kill...eat what they want....and move on..Or something scares them off. I can see someone coming close and they leave and then if it was a person they would see it no eaten and say that they didn't finish it....well duh!! When someone comes they bail. They are shy animals. I have never known a wolf or any preditory animal to sit there and eat all of their kill.If they got that chance they are lucky!! They gorge and then usually bury it or hide it.If they are lucky it is still there when they come back. There are WAY too many elk and deer out there.I lived in Kentucky and there are so many deer in this one area that you can drive up to them and they don't move out of the road. You can almost walk up to them and smack them in the head and they don't do a thing cause there are no natural predetors. Out here in AZ the elk are all over the bloody place and destroy property and cause fatal accidents. Sorry but the hunters don't kill enough to make a difference.....wolves they would, but people are too stupid to know how to co exist. It is ignorance...mankind wants to control everything...animals, earth, and people. If they can't control it kill it...so much easier then trying to understand it and work with it.
~L~
by Two Moons on 05 March 2010 - 05:03
What I meant by not just the Wolf was Buffalo, Lions, Grizzly, and just about everything else that lives on government lands or National Parks is always at risk depending on the politics of man and his policy's.
All they need to survive is the absence of man,
Jurassic Park....lol
But its still true.
Sadly this is not going to happen unless man becomes extinct.
Not impossible.
Moons.
by darylehret on 05 March 2010 - 05:03
by LAVK-9 on 05 March 2010 - 05:03
by darylehret on 05 March 2010 - 05:03
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