Breeding questions?? - Page 2

I have been researching vacs myself and find most minimalists such as myself agree with Dodd's approach ...

http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-CHG-VACC-PROTOCOLS.HTM

Mike will probably want her brucellosis tested before she will be bred. I would worm with Ivermectin about 10 days before breeding. Buy seperate shots. I only give Parvo and Distemper myself. If you can't find the single shots, find the 3-way, not 5 or 7. Small pups don't need all of those other chemicals(hep,flu,resp,corona) in their systems at such a young age. If the new owner wants to board or travel with their dogs, they can get the kennel cough and other shots as needed. My dogs don't get anything but their 3 P/D's 8-16 weeks, rabies I hold off as long as possible(4-6mo) and a booster of P/D at 2yrs old.

if you want to confirm pregnancy, your going to do whatever the vet their recomends. I'm with Two Moons and say, let nature do it's thing, vets usually get the count wrong anyway. She and the pups shouldn't need to see the vet unless she needs a C-section. If you work at a vet ask them how many hours they think warrants an emergency between pups or in laybor with no pups emerging. Everyone has a different opinion. Unless the bitch is screaming in pain, I wouldn't freak out too much. I've seen her stop for 4 hrs and then pop another pup out just fine.

Just make sure mom is up to date on all her own shots, worming, in good physical condition and on premium food. Maybe suppliment with some soy sprouts, probiotics and omega 3's. If you don't want to give fish pills, I feed a can of mackrel, tuna, sardines or salmon twice a week. Just dump it right ontop of moms regular meal.

All my dogs have small front dew claws, very rarely you will find a pup or 2 with 1 or 2 on the back that require removal. Just check all the pups after birth. If anybody has backs, take them in at 2-4 days or snip them off with steril nail clippers yourself at home and smear with...


http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&mscssid=2DRB8GX0N5HA9HRUTX5XP0N9GRERAXKC

Ekvonearnhardt--her website is patriot-k9.com

I'm reserving a pup from this breeding as well!!! Still looking for the gsd in the mean time. Mike has been giving her alot of help and advice. This breeding should be amazing especially since the bloodlines speaks for itself.  Amanda has put alot of time in training her own personal dogs and she does it very well. She is very devoted to her dogs.  I'm amazed to see the satisfaction she brings to her clients as a dog trainer and educator.  I've been to some training sessions and watch her main stud work and that dog is awesome. Now that she is doing a breeding and researching lines before doing so I feel that she will gain more experience in her profession.

EK- yes thank you Melissa for giving my website. I have a few great dogs right now. I want to make sure I do things right. I despise the people who don't put the what if's in their heads. Of course lovely mother nature has made it awesome to allow them to bring the gift of life in this world on their own however I want to be sure that I provide all health testing and precautions just in case their is something to go wrong I am fully prepared and don't find myself in a shocked postition. Not to mention if you don't prepare for financial aspects you could easily have someone neglected if in need of special attention and I plan on having a list of 10 people or so for the litter before I do the breeding and go from there. If there are more than I will accept deposits after the birth but I want to make sure I have serious working homes for all puppies long before they are here. As far as the registration goes..... good luck I am not having any!! I really don't care too much because that only limits the stock that other breeders use if they are interested in only registered dogs and it's obvious to all these dogs are outstanding.

 

In general for anyone else Mike is outstanding! He is a great guy who is giving me all kinds of help! He has not mentioned testing her for Brucellosis because he bred her and knows this will be her first breeding. He also told me I was being too paranoid and it is alot more simple than I make it seem.

Anyone have suggestions on when the best time during the cycle is to breed? Recommend progesterone tests? I am sorry everyone thanks again!! I appreciate all the help! All the hard work and research should show in these puppies!

You may want to book mark this site, it has great information. http://www.showdogsupersite.com/sdbvet1.html 

The articles are written by a breeder vet  who is also a reproductive vet that brings some good practical commensense to the table. I particularly recommend reading these to start

http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/feeding.html   This has a great checklist re breeding also
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/herx.html Re monthly Heartworm medicine in breeding animals
http://www.showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/umbilical.html Distinguishes between the benign & serious
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/fading.html
http://showdogsupersite.com/kenlclub/breedvet/doppler.html


Not re breeding but another excellent article by her  http://www.showdogsupersite.com/elbows.html  [just a fyi - classic ED only occurs in .5% to 3% in most breeds. By expanding the diagnosis and using DJD and suspected (OFAs term not mine) FCP as class1 ED (which are the nonsymptomatic dogs she is talking about) OFA  adds an extra 17 to 19.5% points to the number of dogs labeled as having ED. Keep in mind that class one dogs generally ( if OFA gets it right and often they do not) have "suspected" osteophytes of between 1-3 mm. So a single 1mm undetermined shadow can eliminate a perfectly good dog from the gene pool.

Now let me ask you. Using the classic percentages of ED (.005 to .03) how many breeders do you think would be paying OFA and their vets the big bucks for elbow xrays? Hmm I suspect not many but raise it artificially to 20% and waive the specter of our increasingly draconian lemon laws that treat living animals as toasters and there we go a ready made income.

This is another great link re raising the litter.

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/ruleof7.htm  

The home page has links to other great pages with articles and information on a broad range of topics and behaviors.
http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/page1.htm   such as

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/superpuppy.htm  and  http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/critbehav.htm 

Also I would suggest reading this web page. It has great information about reproduction in the bitch and if you choose to use the progesterone testing what you need to be looking for - many vets seem to be unclear on that part.  http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&S=0&C=0&A=1224&EVetID=242359

My advice is to relax. Keep an eye on your girl in the heats prior to the one she will be bred on. You should have a good idea from her behavior re how many days in she will be in standing heat.  Know also that dogs haven't read the book. The book tells you dogs are in heat for 3 weeks and breedable on the 11th -13th day.  Some breeds that may be true of but at least in GSD there is a WIDE variation in reproductive behaviors ( Tho it is one of the strongest genetic traits so you may want to find out more info on her dam). I have known bitches who could only be bred on the 7th or 9th day. I have personally owned bitches who were not breedable to the 15th day or later and STAYED breedable for 10 days. If I followed the book I would have had a ton of funny looking pups around. My rule is to assume at least 30 days from the start of the heat to keep a bitch protected.

Not only is there great variation in the length of the heat but also in the frequency and duration in between heats from every 4 months to once a year. The reproductive vet community is of the opinion that in short cycling bitches the uterus does not have enough recovery time and reproduction can be more problematic and the bitch is at more risk for pyrometria so keeping in mind the strong inheritablity of reproductive traits you may want to consider that on any bitch you breed and if present seriously consider whether it's something you want to go forward with.

Now keep in mind I'm a GSD person and this information primarily relates to GSDs. Dutchies well may be different.

By the way when we began innoculating our dogs for Parvo, there was a lot of ancedotal information that fertility (lower litter size, more stillborns, problems conceving etc) was affected by the parvo vaccine. The vets in this country of course just poo pooed us and told us not to worry.

The Guide Dog school in England however took the empirical approach to the problem and found that yes fertility was affected both in stud dog and brood bitch. As a result they changed their vaccination protocol. On their males they do the intial shot and booster and then they merely do yearly titer checks. They found that all but 10% maintained healthy titer levels w/o additional vaccinations. The 10% that need revaccination they supected one of two things - either the original vaccination had not taken for some reason( timing etc) or the possibility that the need for revaccination presented the possiblity that these dogs did not have as strong of an immune system as others and therefore they and their progeny should be watched.

With bitches it is a different matter however because the pups depend on maternal antibodies. Like most breeders they were vaccinating their bitches shortly before breeding ( 1 -2 months) in the hopes of having high antibody levels. There were two problems - 1. the fertility problems noted above and 2. extremely high maternal antibody levels can actually work against you because then initial puppy vaccinations do not work.

As a result they changed their protocol. Instead of vaccinating the bitch shortly before a litter they changed it to where she is vaccinated several months after a litter (I do not remember the exact amount of time ) because they found that this produced a sufficient amount of maternal antibodies for her next litter the following year w/o running into the problem of having to high of an antibody level that interfered with puppy vaccination.

That is very interesting information that I was unaware of. I have gotten alot of great information and guidance and luckily I have the breeder I got her from helping me through it as well. I have realized I am going way overboard with it all and nature will allow it to happen as it should. I will make sure I am prepared for all possible outcomes though. Thanks again!!

rik: 
I totally agree with nothing harder than Pyrantel, and the shots I do not give multiple either....I do not give RABIES AT 4 MOS EITHER..

i WORM PUPS WITH Pryantel at 3 wks 4 wks 5 and 6....get a  Panacur before going home  a three day dosage at 8 weeks old..

www.revivalanimal.com     shots are a  Parvo, distemper only.....