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by Sam1427 on 29 May 2009 - 04:05
If I may add, yes it was the Monks who popularized the alpha roll. They also advise slip collar (choke collar) corrections when a young dog refuses to obey and they advise jerking hard enough so the dog knows he's been corrected. They do talk about being the pack leader. With puppies you want to be gentle on their still growing necks. With adults like the one this thread was started about, you have to be much, much firmer. But some people don't get it.
by kcs on 30 May 2009 - 14:05
The Alpha Roll WAS published in the first edition of How to be Your Dogs Best Friend. However, in THAT book it was only meant be used in the most serious of situations and in the revised book it was deleted. So if you read the UPDATED version, you will find nothing about an Alpha Roll. As for choke collars, they're fine...IF NOT ABUSED. They are NOT meant to drag or to YANK a dog, to most effectively use this collar, a quick pop is all that's needed for an effective correction. The things the people on this board are suggesting are inhumane and downright cruel.
by 1doggie2 on 30 May 2009 - 15:05
Maybe it was taken out of the book, becuase if you do it wrong or are inexperianced your going to get bit. No dog wants to be rolled off thier feet and if you roll the wrong dog the wrong way you are going to get tore up.There is not one person here that is saying to abuse this dog, just advising, asking Johnny nicley not to steal your car will not work. this dog has gotten away with bad behavior and needs a STRONG correction at this point. If not corrected this may esculate or he will one day irrate the wrong dog. We can not see what is going on, if he is just saying hi, want to play, this is my street get off of it, I have to bluff you into thinking I am a tuff guy so I will throw the first punch, I need to protect my human from that threat. From what the poster states, this is out of hand and this is no little puppy she is dealing with. So a STRONG correction is in order, she has already tried the "asking nicley" .and the longer this goes on, the stronger the correction that will be needed.
by Vixen on 30 May 2009 - 15:05
Hello Keef,
I am from the UK. From your second post it would seem that Viggo joined your family, quite soon after the trauma of losing your last Shepherd. I think you are possibly right, and poured your love on the puppy, because there was such a sad void from your loss. However, Viggo was filling an emotional need on your part, but LOVE is simply not enough for dogs! (If it were, they would all be perfect)! Also, for some time in your emotionally involvement with Viggo you were living in the past, remember Viggo was living in the present. Well you need to be right there with him!
Leadership is part of a dog's DNA. But fulfilling that Leadership role is where we often let our dogs down big time! Authority is a good mixture of brain and physical strength (as necessary). It should also be well-balanced.
However, you cannot switch on and off to suit you! Your dog needs and requires good confident leadership consistently. For example, not merely when he rants and lunges towards other dogs - he has then already done it! What happens at home??? (Parenting is 24/7 - and so is dog Leadership). Things should not have escalated this far. He is having too much freedom to do 'his own thing', rather than you take control generally. This means in little and medium ways as well as the big ways. Keef, remember if Viggo does not have to listen and take notice of you in general, you have no chance in any bigger issues.
What on earth is your Dog Club teaching you? Allowing him to rant at other dogs, and pull you over! Dog training is not merely learning to PERFORM exercises! He can do them! He also quote: "settles after 10 minutes", but that was his decision not yours! He should be learning from you to 'settle' immediately! In YOUR time not his!!! And no doubt yourself and probably your Instructor praised him and told him "Good boy", when he decided to walk by your side and do a Recall? He decided to show you a learned performance and you told him how grateful you were!! (Think, who is Leading and who is the Follower)! It is not the exercises it is his ATTITUDE that you need to address!
Text is so difficult to try to help someone, but hopefully this will give you something to think about.
Vixen
I am from the UK. From your second post it would seem that Viggo joined your family, quite soon after the trauma of losing your last Shepherd. I think you are possibly right, and poured your love on the puppy, because there was such a sad void from your loss. However, Viggo was filling an emotional need on your part, but LOVE is simply not enough for dogs! (If it were, they would all be perfect)! Also, for some time in your emotionally involvement with Viggo you were living in the past, remember Viggo was living in the present. Well you need to be right there with him!
Leadership is part of a dog's DNA. But fulfilling that Leadership role is where we often let our dogs down big time! Authority is a good mixture of brain and physical strength (as necessary). It should also be well-balanced.
However, you cannot switch on and off to suit you! Your dog needs and requires good confident leadership consistently. For example, not merely when he rants and lunges towards other dogs - he has then already done it! What happens at home??? (Parenting is 24/7 - and so is dog Leadership). Things should not have escalated this far. He is having too much freedom to do 'his own thing', rather than you take control generally. This means in little and medium ways as well as the big ways. Keef, remember if Viggo does not have to listen and take notice of you in general, you have no chance in any bigger issues.
What on earth is your Dog Club teaching you? Allowing him to rant at other dogs, and pull you over! Dog training is not merely learning to PERFORM exercises! He can do them! He also quote: "settles after 10 minutes", but that was his decision not yours! He should be learning from you to 'settle' immediately! In YOUR time not his!!! And no doubt yourself and probably your Instructor praised him and told him "Good boy", when he decided to walk by your side and do a Recall? He decided to show you a learned performance and you told him how grateful you were!! (Think, who is Leading and who is the Follower)! It is not the exercises it is his ATTITUDE that you need to address!
Text is so difficult to try to help someone, but hopefully this will give you something to think about.
Vixen
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