Show and Working Lines, 2 separate breeds - Page 4

 Hello Snaiper69,

Yes, it has been a lifelong problem... I can see the forest but not usually the trees!

Ok, this is the rest of my message,  and no the text color was not set in white, I checked:

I have my own mix on the ground right now, 10 days old - 6 beautiful, dark and lively females. Dam is my beautiful workingline female Chuckie who is a bit of a living legend in her former region (7) in Germany. Just ask a workingline person about her from this region. She consistently produces V-rated structure, BSP-participants and one of her sons from her first litter is the 2008 German Vice Universal Sieger. She just whelped her litter by VA-Arko vom Butjenter Land who had top progeny groups in the past two German Sieger Shows. Do you honestly think that I went through all this expense and effort to "satisfy the pet market"? www.vomsilbersee.com/chuckiearko.html I am not going to get into the discussion of pros and cons as it does not lead anywhere. We all have our own opinions and it is usually impossible to change somebody's mind. Especially this topic is very sensitive to some. I know because I even got hate mail over this breeding. From the U.S. though, not Germany. Our friends and acquaintances in Germany are very supportive and just as curious about the outcome as we are. Ok, I am off this board and back to my dark cuties. Just try to keep an open mind that breeding is thinking in generations and not something as a quick fix or side income to satisfy a certain market. At least, that is what it is supposed to be.

Can't see anything silbersee.

BTW nice to see you. Hope you had nice holidays.

KCzaja, Quote: "I have yet to work any who have trouble in the jumps, or A-frame, or anything else." I know a Jack Russell terrier that also does the schutzhund jump and A-frame. The reality is that the schutzhund jumps are a joke. Go do the ring sport jumps with your dogs and report your findings.

I am happy to hear that you will be doing agility with your dog, I think it is a fun sport for both handler and dog. You can also play football with a basketball and high heels but it is just not quit the same as with the proper equipment.

 Bancroft, no offence but you've said yourself, you're only 10 years into this.  What do you actually know of showlines... any show lines, directly?

Why when some people are confronted with logic and reason, do they insist on attacking the messenger? Why can’t you simply point out why you disagree with Bancroft?

And one more thing (to everyone), nobody cares that your showline or workingline dog is great. Everyone, me included, thinks their dogs are great. But this is about the breed in general, not your dog!

What Christopher said!

Christopher Smith, I think you are right.....Its not about if a showdog that you own can work....I have seen twenty good showdogs that could work in the past 10 years, but I have seen fifty showdogs in that period that had isses that prevented them from doing meaningful work. The issue is that showline breeding no longer CONSISTENTLY produces working dogs in a WORKING breed! Period! Sure there are some, but if these are the KK1 dogs, then they need to lead the way in performance, to make the statement; "that you need good structure to do good work"; become a reality. Too high a percent of these dogs have weak nerve and you can't train this out of a dog!!!

Chris, I have heard that Von Arlett and some other are starting to introduce new blood into the lines besides that derived from Quanto/Canto....if this catches on and the Judges don't penalize them if they're not black and red, then maybe the future may be brighter.

I only call it like i see it.

Thanks Chris.

Gustav, things started to go off the rails in the 60's. The Americans chose Lance of Fran-Jo over Bodo, and the Germans started concentrating on the Wienerau dogs. Both countries are guilty of FAR too much inbreeding.

As for introducing other breeds, in spite of my support for the Shiloh Shepherd, I see no reason for it. The German Shepherd breed is very diverse as it is. We have German Show, German Working, DDR, Czech, American and British lines to choose from. And if that's not enough to get more genetic diversity, there are some breeders in the States who are trying to breed dogs that look like the American lines from the 60's (Royalair, Rin Tin Tin). If breeders wanted to go even further afield, they could mix in Alte Deutscher Schaeferhund or white shepherd lines, all without breaking the line of descent from Horand.

Is it going to happen?

Don't hold your breath. The Almighty Dollar calls the shots!

I think you have very clear and sharp vision on this matter.