So Ironic---Big Three auto CEOs flew private jets to ask for taxpayer money - Page 11

Should have replied earlier, KTF.

Remarks on auto manufacturers etc strike me as good sense. Accountability indeed: statute corporate law or Fed bank regulation both proved pathetic!

Serious equity investment at this time? In lieu of an economy balanced on a knife-edge and heading into if not already in uncharted territory and for a host of other pretty self-evident related reasons, a fairly absurd idea in my opinion – sorry for that! Market’s own behavior dictates against it! It’s one tailor-made for repetitive short-term speculating though, almost a once in a lifetime opportunity in fact! (Well, 9/11’s immediate aftermath also made for great opportunities, albeit only in one direction) Must admit, think I’d left my faith in charts already well behind before I’d turned twenty-one! – sorry again.

Batteries cost, are heavy and need regular replacement: more batteries – more weight – requiring more power – requiring … more batteries. Invent a better and commercially viable electric storage device … and watch electric cars take off.

Otherwise this has turned into an irresistibly hilarious thread for sure …


 

I don't agree with everything Ugly states (almost everything), but he is a financial genius and his knowledge of history is at the Ph.D. level at any major Ivy League University.  Most folks have trouble understanding his main points because they do not know the history, the terminology for the elite deviant groups he identifies, who their cutouts are, and how they hide from plain view. 

When things that seem outrageous are proposed that infringe folks credulity, they often label the speaker and name call rather than do the research because it is just too painful to let themselves believe the truth about history and current affairs.

Some of the OT info divulged on this forum is radicaly groundbreaking and mindblowing to many (forbidden knowledge)and  has already brought disinformation artists here to try and discredit it, which when you think about it provides instant validation. To all you who try to do this to truth, I extend a hearty thank you.  To those who attack because they can't stand their credulity being bridged, I challenge you to hang in there and do the research, set your intimidation and offense aside until you complete the research. 

Start researching the core problem which is well documented in every major university and public library and most encyclopedias.  Look up and study:  boxer rebellion, opium wars, british east india company, china white, etc.  Learn how drugs are used as a weapon of war to subvert a nation and its people. Folks it is the same bunch of families still doing this today but the USA is now their target.  As one of our best forum posters (2moons) always says, SSDD ie > same sh*t different day.   

I am no financial genius either, but

re: the big 3 bailout.  The purported reason they are asking for money is that their credit has dried up.  If you constantly need bank loans to stay solvent then you need to a) Make more money by selling a marketable product, or b) Cut your costs to survive on the money you are already making,   It ain't rocket science. 

It would be like if I wasn't making enough money to pay my monthly bills I would need to either lower the bills or get a higher paying job.  Of course I COULD get a loan, but it would make it just that harder to meet my bills in the future.  The CEOs don'y seem to realize that.

re: The Bank Bailout

1. This is to get the banks to loosen up credit at a time that they are unwilling to loan.  Isn't that how banks make money?  If they refuse to loan money they will fail and yet Congress is succumbing to their blackmail.  What the banks are essentially saying is that if we don't give them money they will not loan any out, thus putting themselves out of business.  Anybody really believe that will happen?  They NEED to make loans but the loans have to be responsible ones that have a good chance of being repaid.

In lieu of an economy balanced on a knife-edge and heading into if not already in uncharted territory and for a host of other pretty self-evident related reasons, a fairly absurd idea in my opinion – sorry for that!

Chisum, the problem I have is that NO ONE can call tops and bottom with any consistency. I have traded the markets off and on for decades - just about every market and a lot of different vehicles. In the process, I have subscribed to timing services, followed indicators, thrown darts, etc.

So what I do is to buy when no one wants em and sell when everyone is clamoring to buy stocks. But I phase in very gradually and phase out the same way. It works for me on an overall basis - though I am always early when I buy and when I sell. Everything I bought in the past four weeks or so is under water to one degree or another. But I do have faith that we will rebound at some point. So all I need to do is to have the means to ride out the storm. Have you ever studied any of David Dreman's work? He is a contrarian and goes against the tide.

Am toying around with buying another house in this area. We were planning on scaling down since we are now empty nesters and don't need the all the space we have. But I don't want to sell in the current environment so if I can catch a great deal - perhaps a foreclosure or distress sale - I might just do so.

Patience is a great virtue especially when it comes to the markets - that and avoiding the herd instinct.

There is one major difference between us and the automakers, or even the banks, Poppa. If you or I went belly-up the impact on rest of economy would be minimal and nobody would give a damn. I wonder if anyone here has any figures on the big three’s outstanding employee pension obligations and the like.

The bank situation is mighty complicated, with financial system in effect wider economy’s lubricant. The bank bailout is largely meant to unfreeze inter-bank trust/dealings – restore some sort of stability (Citigroup situation isn’t helping!) 

Because of the home mortgage madness and severe drop in home values, we’re also still stuck with massive unresolved losses; variously locked-up within the system between homeowners, financial institutions and now the Feds as well – in fact, nobody really knows exactly where or how much!  

"Because of the home mortgage madness and severe drop in home values, we’re also still stuck with massive unresolved losses."

Still want to stick to the statement that the impact on the economy would be minimal if you or I went belly up?  Seems to me that that is one of the root causes of this mess, people not being able to pay their regular bills, much less buy new cars.

Will Rogers said, "If you find yourself in a hole, the first thing to do is stop digging."

Still want to stick to the statement that the impact on the economy would be minimal if you or I went belly up?  Seems to me that that is one of the root causes of this mess, people not being able to pay their regular bills, much less buy new cars.

Sorry ProudShepherdPoppa, if people are not able to pay their mortgages, car payments, credit card bills,  etc, they should have to live with the consequences. It is ridiculous that we as a society should have to worry about people getting over-extended. Where is the concept of personal responsibility?

Will it affect the overall economy? You bet it will but in the long run the excesses will be wiped clean and we start again.

I think it is patently ridiculous that banks are being pressured to offer moratoriums on delinquent mortgages. I pay my mortgage on time, have not over-extended myself with debt, lived within my means, etc. Why should I support offering relief to people who have made the wrong choices?

Yes, people lose their jobs through no fault of their own. When this happens it creates a lot of pain - but that is nothing new. It has happened repeatedly over the decades whenever there has been an economic downturn. I have personally been affected during prior downturns. 

Right now, I am making investment decisions in the market which some would view as foolish. If it turns out that I lose money, it is my actions that have caused it and I would have no right to complain or expect others to make up my losses.

Not purposely missing the point then, Poppa?

I merely meant that if you or I had some small business and way over-extended ourselves credit-wise, nobody would rush to our rescue – default owing the bank $10 000, you get chased you from here eternity; similarly owe a billion and they’ll fall over themselves to strike accommodation. Yes, sure, folksy Will knew a thing or two.

KFT: “I think it is patently ridiculous that banks are being pressured to offer moratoriums on delinquent mortgages.”

Other than for policing broader regulatory framework, the whole idea of government telling shareholder-owned private enterprises how to run their affairs or dictating operating business policy, or taking equity stakes, is so variously flawed that I hardly know where to begin! 

Small example: home mortgages were bundled and sold worldwide at a price/risk ratio based on known interest rates and repayment terms. What happens to their worth where core terms are arbitrarily altered midstream? Or, where executives or their finance people have decided on a certain corporate gearing between equity and loan capital, between risk and best shareholder return in other words, and then find the whole apple-cart turned upside down by some bureaucratic dictate. 

Hear Bush speak about economic momentum moving from the West to the East – “some fear this trend with fear and suspicion … but not America”! Great stuff! 

Apparently Obama is talking of a stimulus package – watch that deficit go through the roof!

Sure, KFT, picking the market’s top or bottom is the hardest thing of all - I doubt anyone can do it! (And why work-wise it’s a cardinal rule of mine never to give stock market advice - biggest losing game in town!) It’s also impossible for larger institutions with huge amounts invested to move wholesale in or out of the market at will – the way you or I might.

“Patience is a great virtue especially when it comes to the markets - that and avoiding the herd instinct.”

I used to spend an inordinate amount of time reading daily/weekly/monthly investment rags if only to keep up to date on particular stocks – going contrary to the herd is mostly essential. Patience too, even though derivatives mostly demand constant monitering, if not instant response. Similarly, I’d already instructed my broker to sell all my stock forthwith before the World Towers started to tumble - and still suffered a small loss! (Once the market stopped sliding I promptly applied a third of previous total equity dollars into calls over specific I don’t recall how many stocks, constantly replacing them subsequently with those lagging behind market’s overall upward trend.) I’m trying to say how you need to adopt different strategies for different conditions  

Well before the slide started last year I’d already been convinced for some time that the market was way over-priced (in fact, so sure I cashed my equity backed life insurance policies – first time ever!) Yet the damn thing kept firming and by the time I did sell it was down ten percent from its top! Still, when something major is afoot I think there are always plenty of signals – interest and inflation rates, consumer spending and oil prices, factory orders and related indices real estate market trends (as you’d know its ups/down cycles tend to run in tandem with equity’s, but for the timing), price/earning ratios and company profit forecasts etc. But you’d know all that. Or how equity markets, competing as they do for funds with fixed interest ones, usually hail interest cuts, despite the fact that rates are only cut because the economy is slowing, so, what prima facie looks great is in reality anything but.

In the end I can only speak for myself and shan’t re-enter equity-wise till there’s talk of higher inflation (other than what seems due to oil price increases) and interest rate increases (worldwide I suppose), restored consumer confidence, rising commodity prices and so forth, as well as a settling down of markets as a whole. A while back I expected a drop up to thirty percent – didn’t expect it so fast! Personally I think it has a long way to go yet.








 

The point that I was making is that whether you are a family or a large corporation it is not sound fiscal policy to continually spend more than you are making, yet that is what is being done on large scale.  No I would not expect anyone to bail me out if I got into financial trouble, but that is exactly what the automakers are asking.  Instead of using loans to expand and improve, which would have brought in more money in the long run, they are being used as a crutch to support a failing interprise.  Now that they don't have that crutch, they are crying.  The tax dollars we give them will be used the same way.  In a few months when the money has run out they will be back asking for more.