BBC Dropping Crufts?; tv documentary tonight - Page 5

A disturbing programme ,but sadly true in some aspects

However i agree ,it was a shallow and biased view of the GSD and will undoubtedly put off prospective owners who have only that viewpoint to follow

Disappointingly it did not mention the lengths the majority of the GSD community have gone through in developing ,hip,elbow scores and blood testing for haemophilia ,DNA proofing in order to promote the health of our dogs

Sadly,  overangulation and length of hocks is a problem we need to addrress,however other issues such as temperament , longevity and good health are also important issues

Clearly mandatory testing of hips ,elbows etc is the way forward  as adopted by most of Europe

As to the working /show line debate it will go on

I own a show line female who i show and have trained to Schutzhund 1

However i do see in the work dogs the drive needed for top competition points ,to help in my quest i have done some homework and i am shortly importing a GSD from  German work lines ,whose breeder  and dogs compete in trials and regularily shows at the  German Seiger,gets excellent hip and elbow scores on his dogs and most obtain Kkl1 and V show rating

So I am  in the middle, yes you can work a show dog with some success and you can find work dogs with pretty good conformation

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

Izzi, you're so right.  Two of my previous dogs (both sadly dead) worked well.  Jack won his way into working "B" in obedience, which is no mean feat for a Shepherd.  Gabi, who was all so called "show lines", excelled in tracking... but her temperament (beaten and drugged by her first owner) did not lend itself to working away from me so we "played" at working trials.

Most dogs can work, given half a chance! 

 Setting the cat amongst the pigeons.....

Maybe its time to move away from the Kc and adopt an SV type breed management , warden system, through our countries own WUSV body , A body where where we could register animals and puppies, we could have mandatory requirements for breeding adults following the contintental model. Perhaps with the requirement of working qualifications being phased in over a realistic number of years..  At the very least we could have the requirements of a Breed survey, Haem Test ,DNA and Hip and Elbow scoring for registerable breeding stock .

To

I found the program informative and it just gave me the reassurance that i was looking for

for those of you that find the working lines ugly remember one thing the original breed standard by the founder of our breed.

the BS the KC came out with was unbelievable small minded bigots LMFO i will just carry on as i have  been, and watch as the KC falls to pieces unfortunately at the same rate as the poor innocent dogs.

if people look back to the earliest pics of GSDs and then the stupid frog dogs we have created hopping around our show ring , we should all be ashamed.

mine might not be SHOW WORTHY in the KCs eyes but hey they will live long and happy  and above all healthy lives and i think they are stunning. oh ad they can work

my babies:)

I reiterate, most dogs can work, given half a chance.  I have dogs, not "show dogs" or "working dogs".  Sometimes I've shown sometimes I've worked or done both, it's ok NOT to be fanatical and it's unhelpful to be derisory.  I'm certainly not looking for applause from any source.  What an odd way to view things.  Never mind...

I've had many Shepherds over the years and none of them were as you described. 

I don't know if a split is the right way to go or not.  It's been played with for years and years now but nothing has ever happened.  Maybe we lack the "right sort" to convince and organise?  It would be a huge undertaking and of course the KC would still register those that didn't wish to join.

Maybe we need to sort out the KC, I'm sure people from many other breeds feel the same.  It's hard to see how we could do anything like this successfully when we can't even achieve unity amongst ourselves.  It's a dilema!

I only registered to give my opinion of the GSD in the programme

I don't own and will never own a GSD

I do own working malinois I train in Belgian ring and as such place huge stresses on the conformation of my dogs.

No dog with the conformation of the show GSD would be capable of doing 1/10 of what i ask of my dogs (agility wise)

He simply would tear of tendons, have hip displacents, spinal injurie etc

I Challange the judge that defended the GSD that won the conformation show, as shown in the programme, to come over to belgium and let me test the workability of that dog. That dog may be a sweet pet but it is in no means capable of doing any serious work. I'm convinced that my wifes papillion (whith genetic related problems) stands a better chance of passing  a simple endurance test than the shown GSD

I would gladly discus the conformation of the dog and his faults with that judge and, man, he wouldn't know where to hide

Although i am convinced that the GSD is a lesser dog than my prefered breed and i have no interest in it as such. My statement is clear:

99% of the showdogs should be put down in sake of the breed. (or at least sterilised)

Go to the original dog and restart building a "working" population of gsd's with a test of thier "structure" like Belgian ring

I now that this post will offend and shock. But i hope that some of you who have the best interest with the breed look at it for what it is; A warning. That you stay away from the kind of dogs as shown and that you go for a sound dog with a sound temperament and that is structurally sound

Here's an afterthought. I work with working dogs. I have an excelent working male dog that  i will never breed because he has 'flat' feet (GSD like) Try to be even more severe on your breeding your breed needs it

Greetings

Johan

VERY well said Tigermouse & Bancroft,

Why is there such a HUGE divide in what is after all supposed to be the greatest working breed ever ? I too have over some 30 years of breeding shown a bit with some success, competed in obedience & working trials again with some success, I still breed the same type of dog who are both sound in mind & body,they are not show dogs, they are not working dogs, but dogs bred carefully without any exaggeration that are able in mind & body to do both, should they be required to, the only difference between my dogs now & those I had 30 years ago is that my current dogs are predominantly of German bloodlines, BUT they are NOT over exaggerated in any way, I hope they are what people are wanting as both dogs to work -several police forces have worked dogs of my breeding  for years & still phone me up for more - Pet owners consistantly come back to me time & again over the years because of the sound dogs I breed, so why is it that some dogs of very similar lines are so over exaggerated, this surely must show that its the breeders who decide to specialise who are the culprits of the demise in what was & still could be a truely dual purpose dog, be they show breeders or working.

johan...good post

This extract of an email I received today sums up the BBC programme very well. Please note the dogs mentioned, and there is NO mention of the GSD. The totally biased portrayal of our GSD breed in this programme was disgusting. The "edited" comments from the GSD Judge was despicable.  Terry Hannon is certainly one of our best GSD Judges in the UK. 
The problem referred to in our breed is miniscule by any assessment.  We should NOT allow ourselves to be overwhelmed or criticised by the "Alsationists" the "Working lobby" and the "breeders of dippy backed, short legged, ro;y poly  GSD".
Our GSD breeders, particularly our GSD Show breeders are amongst the best informed and breed with some of the highest standards of any Pedigree Dog breeders anywhere in the World. Of course we can improve, and I am sure we will.

"Having campaigned against animal abuse for over 15 years, I thought I was beyond being shocked. The creation and maintenance of pure-bred animals has always struck me as a bizarre and exploitative practice that endangers the welfare of the animals – everyone knows that mongrels are healthier than purebreds. While some breeders are undoubtedly conscientious and caring, ultimately breeding treats animals as human artefacts rather than as individuals with inherent value. But last night’s BBC documentary about dog breeders and the Kennel Club showed that a culture that treats animals as mere objects inevitably leads to incredible, sadistic cruelty.

Generations of inbreeding, including incest, have resulted in a number of deadly and debilitating illnesses, and many breeders continue to bring animals into the world who are doomed to a life of excruciating pain.

Particularly disturbing were the scenes showing a King Charles spaniel that was contorted and screaming in agony because he had been bred with a skull too small for his brain. The bulldog has been bred to a state of deformity whereby they can no longer mate or give birth without human etc