Hip Grading - Page 2

thanks Blitzen. I never got into the site deeply enough as I have not had any real reason to. Interesting that they do measurements, I thought it was all subject to 3 Drs opinions on visuals. I know they are taking digital x-rays now. And I have a couple of dogs to do soon, and was going to go to a vet with digitals as they are so much clearer. Just over 100 miles away No one locally seems to do good OFAs and freely admits to it.

Cheers And Thanks Scotty and Blitz, Learning all the time! I thought the animal was always automatically anaethetised for H/E x-ray purposes, but obviously not. One more question which may well resolve my ignorance. In the US, generally, are the x-rays scrutinised, graded, certified(?) by the vet taking them (using perhaps template cited by Silbersee earlier) or, are they send to a radiologist specialist elsewhere for grading/interpretation/detailed analysis? And, just to complete picture, how does one go about having the plates copied? I presume you need a facility with specialised equipment? Regards.

Hi Patrishap, I can only speak from my own experiences. IMO some vets are good at evaluating and taking hip xrays, some are lousy. I guess that's why most of us in the US send them off to OFA for their evaluations, it give us some consistency. OFA used to have each xray evaluated by 3 different vet radiologists, they'd mail the xrays to each other and then back to OFA along with their evaluations. You'd be lucky to get anything back for 2 months, now it happens a lot faster. Actually I'm not sure how they do it now. At one time we could get an evaluation on a dog at 12 months, now it's 24. One vet I worked for was dead on with evaluating hip xrays; he trained under the east coast HD guru at the University of Pa vet school, Dr. Wayne Riser. Riser wsa a pioneee for palpating pupppies and the fulcrum xray. Another of my employers, an older fellow, mainly interested in large animals, was terrible, He'd say - well, they're not perfect, but I've seen worse and he could still be bred if he doesn't limp LOL. Unfortunately he himself owned a very lovely German import and allow him to be bred to the local petshop bitches. He was never xrayed and neither were most of the bitches. I think most vets will offer an opinion on a pass or fail, but I wouldn't take the word of the local vet if I had a dog standing at stud oe buying one of the puppies, I'd want to see at least a report from a vet radiologist, Penn Hip, or OFA. As I understand it, the scheme used in the UK and in parts of Europe is a lot different than ours here. Do you know how they arrive at those numbers they assign to your dogs?

Hello Peter, Check this out http://realgsd.info/GSDinfo/Care/HD/breedvalue.htm

Thanks Charlie, Bloody good to see you on Board! Hallo Blitz, Many posts ago Charlie stated, in usual inimicable Charlie-way, this whole business was 'crap shoot'! The more I hear, the more I couln't agree. Anyhow, your stuff is good, and silbersee before. Here, the vet has got very little to do with interpreting the x-rays. All he has to worry about is proper positioning (and the ones that don't get the practise are pretty hopeless!). You collect the x-rays with vet's signed certification form, and then forward the lot to scoring specialist at one of the Universities. If total score exceeds 8 - or 4 at any one location - animal fails. Thanks Blitz.

Patrishap, that is basically the same way here in the U.S. with OFA. You go to the vet, get the x-ray done. Vet fills out a form which goes along with the x-ray to OFA (he has to mark which way it was done (restraint only or if put under, which tranquilizer was used), but he does not make any recommendation at all. The dog's owner is responsible to fill in the part of the dog's personal data, dob, tattoo No., reg. No. etc. and then to send it to OFA. In Germany, it is completely different: You go to the vet. The vet will demand your original pink papers. The dog is x-rayed. The vet fills out a form with a recommendation what grade the dog should get. He will forward the x-ray and his form to the SV, who in turn will forward to the evaluating radiologist. The dog's owner will never touch the x-ray or that form. Only vets, who have been licensed by the SV are permitted for that procedure. The SV issues license numbers to them, which they will use on that form. Oh, and of course, at the time of x-ray, the vet will stamp the original pink papers and sign it (but he will not put the a-stamp grade in, the SV doe that). After the radiologist is done with his evaluation (however he does it, with the template and/or scoring system), he will send the form back to the SV, who will contact the owner in writing and asking that the original pink papers be submitted. They will then put the a-stamp on the papers and return it to the owner. Patrishap, which country are you in, by the way? You might have posted it somewhere, but I don't recall reading it. My guess is Australia? Chris

Thanks Silbersee. Check.

WHAT A JOKE BLITZEN IS: HE DOES NOT SPEND A DIME ON HIP RATINGS. I CAN PROVE THIS FROM OUR AREAS AND FOLKS THAT GOT SUCKED INTO BUYING HIS JUNK DOGS OR PUPS. ONE PENN HIP IS DONE TO SEND INTO THE OFA BY ANY VET, SPREDING THE DOG WIDE APART TO SHOW ANY JAGGED EDGES OR HD. THE OFA GIVES THE RATING OF A: EXCELLENT, A FAST NORMAL: GOOD, B: FAIR HIPS.ANYTING LOWER SHOULD BE FIXED AND FORGOTTEN ABOUT BREEDING. I WAS STUPID ENOUGH TO BREED A FEMALE TO HIS KANE AND SHE IS MODERATE ON HD, BUT THEY ACCEPT THIS KNOWING HIM NOT DOING HIPS SO BEING A VET TECK SHE GIVES HER NATURAL MEDS TO CONTAIN THE CONDITION. HE GIVES YOU ALL OPINIONS HE READ FOR YEARS IN BOOKS, BUT DOES NOT PRACTICE ANYTHING THAT TAKES HIS MONEY TO IMPROVE THIS WONDERFUL BREED, HE HAS A HARD TIME EVEN SELLING HIS JUNK. HE IS KNOWN NOW IN THE STATE OF BEING A BYB OF JUNK DOGS OF WEST LINES SO TO SPEAK FOR THEY ARE NOT PURE WEST GERMAN LINES AND I SAID YOU FALSE ADVERTISE I WILL TURN YOU IN TO STOP THE LIES OF TAKING PEOPLE FOR PRICES HIS PUPS ARE NOT WORTH MORE THAN 200. HE SHOULD GET A LIFE AND GET OFF HERE FOOLING YOU ALL WITH HIS SO CALLED NEAR PROFESSIONAL OPINIONS FROM BOOKS READ. HE HAS NEVER IMPORTED, OWNED A GOOD DOG NOR KNOW ABOUT SHUTZHUND ONLY WHAT HIS BOOKS TELL HIM. YET SOME OF HIS FRIENDS HERE MAKE FUN OF DR RON, WELL HE HAS COMPETED IN SHUTZHUND AND OBEDIENCE AND RUN AT YOUR MOUTHS, HE KNOWS THE SHEPHERD FROM WEST GERMANY MORE THAN MOST OF YOU JERKS THAT MAKE FUN OF A PERSON THAT DOES NOT EVEN KNOW OF THIS SEARCH BOARD, SO LAY OF CHARLIE HE IS A GOOD MAN AND I WOULD HATE TO SICK HIM ON YOU FOR YOUR FRAUD LIES ABOUT HIM AND MAKING FUN OF HIM FOR HE CAN HANDLE DOGS AND WAS A BODY BUILDER MOST HIS LIFE AND WOULD SET U IN YOUR FAT PLACE AS WELL AS BLITZEN RUNS FROM HARRY. SO YELLOW?????

"ONE PENN HIP IS DONE TO SEND INTO THE OFA BY ANY VET" Penn Hip x-rays are ***NEVER*** sent to the OFA, my dear. They are two totally different diagnostic tools. ***EVERY*** Penn hip x-ray taken, regardless of quality, so even failing x-rays have to be submitted for official Penn hip evaluation by the University of Pennsylvania. Once you start the process there is no way of stopping it. Probably one reason why Penn Hip, though by many considered superior, never really caught on. With OFA you can x-ray at your vet and then still choose to submit or not. Plus they do not publish negative results if you don't want them published. OFA is the Orthopedic Foundation for Animals and not related to the University of Pennsyvania (Penn Hip). I don't quite follow your last post Shrek (Whildthing), but I think if you started out breeding to a male Kane that had no HD screening then why should you whine when you get a displastic pup out of it? If you don't like the dogs, you live in a free country - don't go there! Why is is turning into some incoherent mumbojumbo and back and forth bashing again?? How about an annual GSD Owner Wrestling Match.

Wildthing, why are you on this board? Why are you dealing with us, since you call us quote MOST OF YOU JERKS unquote. Nobody can make any sense of your ranting anyway. Obviously, you don't know anything about HD and ratings at all, judging by your message. Chris