British sieger show - Page 3

Whilst the KC are still holding at the controls for shows, the British Sieger  will always 'never quite get it right' , I have attended some of the British Sieger shows, & whilst it is very enjoyable as an opportunity to see some lovely dogs & also a chance to meet friends, there is just too much still not allowed by the KC for it to ever be taken totally seriously as a 'real' show.

For me the comments of last years dog judge about a dog having failed his bite test previously, therefore he couldn't place it first ,were just laughable, if it hadn't been so tragic , talk about judging on the day ....NOT .At a show were there was NO  test of courage, what on earth has  something that happened previously got to do with  an animals presentation & performance on the day ................. ???

How about getting off nikki,s back

Can things really be changed that quick

20 plus years ago I was hearing working qualification ,Schutzhund ,etc will soon be a requirement of the GSD in shows ,at last we have it at the British Seiger

Be thankful for that concession by the KC

Remember how to eat a elephant (aka the kennel club)-bit by bit

Maybe next year every piece of the jig saw will be complete ,what we need now is competent helpers who apply a consistent and fair test ,quality dogs and the support  of all GSD enthusiasts,with less back stabbing and personal insults which we see to frequently on this board

Is this a democraticallly elected "elephant" answerable to the people who it regulates?

izzi   Like to say there is no stabbing in the back and I have not read any yet on this thread,  people are just saying their opinions which makes a change and I have the greatest repect for Nikki Farley and I work with her on the Council and I know the hard work she does.  But this is not about Nikki, this thread is about the British Sieger, and Nikki is part of it, if you put yourself forward expect to take some flack.  The sad part is The Breed Council and BAGS are involved in the British Sieger and they read these threads so Where are they?

There is no excuse we have 4 months away from the British Sieger and hopefully as Nikki says she will try and sort it out.

Philip Prince

Gaiting OFF LEAD should NOT be regarded as a concession by the KC. Many people clearly have not yet adapted to the new reality which prevails at the Kennel Club, brought about by the Pet Passport system and the need for the KC to come to a "mutual understanding" with the FCI. The those that do not know the FCI is an organisation of over 100 Kennel Clubs from around the world. The Kennel Club in the UK is NOT a member, but when the Pet Passport system was introduced many exhibitors of many breeds wanted to enter shows throughout Europe and the USA. This required "mutual agreement" between the KC with the FCI regarding mutual recognition of its AWARDS & its QUALIFICATIONS etc. The KC knew thw FCI recognised Schutzhund and therefore the KC could NOT ban Schutzhund, so they put it on the "unlicensed event" list. The British Sieger is also on the "unlicensed events" list. So please STOP stating these events and qualifications are CONCESSIONS by the KC, and start vigorously examining other opportunities offered by the "MUTUAL UNDERSTANDING" between the KC & FCI. Better still, push for the KC to join the FCI, then we will really join the international Dog World.

Other than discussing the British Sieger Event it has little to do with gaiting off lead just an opinion I feel strongly about. I have enjoyed the British Sieger show and have been to every event, I understand that it is slow going to make any progress to European standards and in my opinion however we may strive this will not happen due to lack of training facilites etc. However I would like to express my opinion for what its worth.

My situation is that I am a working class man, with working class job, and working class pay. I have a family to support and morgage to pay. As the British Sieger event progresses where does it leave some of the working class people? I can easily get my dogs to gait at the side of me, as this is how I train them anyway so no problem.

Schutzund however is a very different story, no clubs aound us to attend, I have not got the skill that is needed to train, not a wealthy man to be able to afford the luxury to send our dogs away to pay for training for a title, and even if we did send the dogs away and not feed my kids for a couple of years to pay (joking) I do not possess the skill to keep up with the training on return to be able compete at this event. Sorry for the ramblings but I find as the British Sieger event progresses it is leaving a lot of us behind who do not have the financial backing to make a VA status therefore in my opinion it is not a level playing field.

I will attend all the Events with my dogs, and enjoy the show, I know that it will be the imports that will make the VA positions and for those with the money who have paid for their dogs training could also make the British bred GSD.s VA. I applaude you all for being able to do this and good luck to you (as if we could do it we would like to do it too)! We are just not as fortunate as some in the breed, and we know that we will never make a VA position due to this, it is such a shame as such progression is leaving a lot of people behind that pay good money to enter, and are going now just to make the numbers up, as this is how I see the future I am afraid.

I know that the future for most of us is bleak in that  we almost certainly will never get a VA title even though at least one of my dogs would be worthy of such a title so I find it a little more than frustrating, this showing stuff is really getting for those that are more able to afford the priveledge. I occasionally wonder if these topics have been raised by the fortunate ones in committe meetings etc? Probably not. (No personal attacks meant for anyone just a gereralised statement/thought) But we will be there and you will see our dogs in future running off the lead at my side at future shows, but for how long before more exhibitors fall by the wayside and not support the Event due to above mentioned points? Who knows.

Spike

To Spike

totally agree with most of what you say but you have to remember that that the British Sieger is only once a year with only 2 classes for titled and koered dogs, put this into perspective with just the championship shows with GSD classes each year and then the numbers of classes for GSD it would probably work out at less than 1% of the total GSD classes for the year.

Both Sieger and Siegerin last year were British bred. Our female was also Siegerin in Ireland in 2007 and VA1, she beat all the imports, she was trained by us in the UK but titled in Germany due to the fact that the SV only except titles done by SV judges and that we also do not have any koerungs in the UK. We also titled another female Sindy in Germany, fully trained by us in the UK but a 4 day trip to Germany for a pre booked trial and she got her schh1, I know that not everyone can do this but it is possible but it is also an awful lot of hard work and sometimes we even wonder why we bother, lol!!

I think we must enjoy the British Sieger for what it is and participate in the classes that we can, it is a once a year show, would be great to see the off lead gaiting and I am sure that the protection test will be a great crowd drawer.

Carol

There is absolutely no need to send any GSD away to the continent for training; although the Schutzhund clubs in the UK are not numerous they are reachable my most, if you want to do it enough.

We already have two UK judges recognised by the WUSV in the UK so that any qualification gained under them is recognised on the continent; therefore there is really no reason to send a dog away for training when you can enjoy training it yourself with help.  I can go and title my dog abroad inc Germany without having to retake a stake I have already passed in the UK; so the statement that there are no SV recognised judges in the UK is not quite correct I believe.  It just may not be widely known.

http://www.gsdleague-workingbranch.com/judges_seminar_article.html

http://www.gsdleague-workingbranch.com/news.html

http://www.gsdleague-workingbranch.com/contacts.html

"Following on from the recent Seminar held in the UK with Herr Gunther Diegel of the WUSV, we have now been officially informed by him that the judges who attended the seminar are now able to give full recognised working qualifications in the UK. These qualifications will now be recognised by the WUSV for world wide competition.

This is a great step forward for the sport in the UK to have our own judges capable of giving a world wide recognised qualification. The GSDL Working Dog Group and all of its branches can now benefit from this, having the ability to request UK judges instead of going to the expense of inviting overseas judges for both club and high level trials.

The GSDL Working Dog Group has an ongoing active scheme for new apprentice judges with three people already well on their way to becoming full recognised judges, and two of the three apprentices heading towards becoming full judges by the end of the year."

Many of us work full time, have mortgages to pay, families to raise but we spend all our spare time training our dogs.

Spike, Carol forgot to mention female was handled by well known German, owner of German VA's who informed judge during individual she was VA female, not Irish VA, just VA. From that form your own conclusions.

AS 

British Bred dog winner, lives, trained in Germany with his joint German owners. You were correct in everything you said Spike and those who try to tell you different are the ones with the German contacts but who want you to think they are far superior to you, with their 'If we can do it anybody can crap'.

AS