Rabies Vaccinations for puppies What age is best? - Page 3

Titers are indicative of a recent exposure.  That exposure releases antibodies into the blood.  Therefore, it can be said that any titer result indicates an immunity.

Dave

Blitzen & GunnarGSD  I also believe that vaccines are necessary but not the frequency or the amounts used.

Hodie: "In dogs, as in humans, there can be rare adverse reactions. These reactions are usually related to the individual dog and how its immune system does not process challenges normally." But how does this translate when its your dog or child that dies or suffers from the side affects? Especially when the frequency of the vaccines are not necessary.  Also I think most people realise that vaccines have to be kept chilled until used, but again when you are vaccinating your pet yourself or a vet does it, how do you know for certain that at some point in transit that vaccine has not become warm? You don't...

NEW!!! VACCINATION PROTOCOL
by Dr. Jean Dodd
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All of the 27 Vet Universities in the US have followed the immunization protocol as suggested by Dr. Dodd for years. All of these Hospitals will be changing their Vaccination Programs apparently. This is welcome news and you should print this out and take it with you to your Vet should you need reinforcement against over-vaccination.

VACCINATION NEWSFLASH [CIMDA support] RE; J DODDS
VACCINE PROTOCOL
I would like to make you aware that all 27 veterinary schools in North America are in the process of changing their protocols for vaccinating dogs and cats. Some of this information will present an ethical & economic challenge to Vets, and there will be skeptics. Some organizations have come up with a political compromise
suggesting vaccinations every 3 years to appease those who fear loss of income vs. those concerned about potential side effects. Politics, traditions, or the doctors economic well-being should not be a factor in a medical decision.

NEW PRINCIPLES OF IMMUNOLOGY
Dogs and cats immune systems mature fully at 6 months. If a modified live virus vaccine is given after 6 months of age, it produces immunity, which is good for the life of the pet (i.e.: canine distemper, parvo, feline distemper). If another MLV vaccine is given a year later, the antibodies from the first vaccine neutralize the antigens of the second vaccine and there is little or no effect. The titer is not "boosted" nor are more memory cells induced. Not only are annual boosters for parvo and distemper unnecessary, they subject the pet to potential risks of allergic reactions and immune-mediated haemolytic anemia. There is no scientific documentation to back up label claims for annual administration of MLV vaccines. Puppies receive antibodies through their mothers milk. This natural protection can last 8 - 14 weeks. Puppies & kittens should NOT be vaccinated at LESS than 8 weeks. Maternal immunity will neutralize the vaccine and little protection (0-38%) will be produced. Vaccination at 6 weeks will, however, DELAY the timing of the first highly effective vaccine. Vaccinations given 2 weeks apart SUPPRESS rather than stimulate the immune system. A series of vaccinations is given starting at 8 weeks and given 3-4 weeks apart up to 16 weeks of age. Another vaccination given sometime after 6 months of age (usually at l year 4 mo) will provide LIFETIME IMMUNITY.

AAHA (american animal hospital association) also recommends a three year distemper/parvo.  it's just taking a very long time for the changeover. 

My veterinarian has recommended vaccinating every 3 years for quite a while now.  As far as titering, I keep going back and forth on the issue of reliability and end up more confused than ever.  I still have a couple of years left before I have to make up my mind.

Let me be clear. I am not arguing with the AAHA guidelines on vaccination frequency. I am disputing some of the garbage written above by one individual in particular who has not the slightest understanding of the subject matter. One cannot just make this up as you go along. Any immune response, whether provoked by vaccination or a "natural" infection, will produce the typical signs of the immune system at work. Everyone here should be familiar with the common signs and symptoms of inflammation and/or immune response.

Further, it is simply NOT correct that a single vaccine of any sort confers lifetime immunity in all people or in dogs. This has been studied extensively, for example, with the issue of smallpox and its potential use as a bio-weapon. What has been observed is that in some older Americans, there is SOME level of antibody present, but in many who were vaccinated as children, there is none. Of course in the overwhelming majority of Americans who were not vaccinated as children, they have NO immunity and would be the first to become sick and possibly die from an outbreak. Fortunately, it may never happen. 

Titers can be useful but I would be that if I prepared a quiz for the people who swear by them that few would have any clue as to what the titers mean, whether there are problems with the testing methods etc. So one should not just read this stuff here and decide to do one thing or the other. I respect those who have knowledge and decide that they would rather take a risk with not vaccinating. Where that is legal, and as long as I am not exposing my dogs or those of my clients to those dogs, it is fine. Where the real problem comes in is that we will never be able to eradicate any of these diseases as long as there is a reservoir in the population, and that includes the population of dogs.

Trailrider, what you have copied above is old. Dr. Dodds is almost the lone ranger when it comes to vaccinations and the hysteria created by assuming we are over-vaccinating. To date, there is little if any real science behind her concerns and a fair amount paid for by those who would have loved confirmation of her concerns, but in fact, the studies did NOT back her up.

As far as vaccines becoming warm in transit, one does not know if and when that happens and that, in fact, is one of the explanations for the failure of vaccines when dogs who supposedly WERE vaccinated become ill. This is one reason why one should be certain to order from reputable firms and use appropriate shipping to ensure the vaccines arrive having been kept at the proper temperature. If they are not, they should be rejected. Giving partial doses, whether intentionally or because the dog moves and half squirted out through the skin is another.

Thanks, Hodie.  I didn't think that was directed at me.  We have rejected shipped vaccine that has arrived with melted ice packs and warm.  In fact we lost an entire refrigerator of vaccine two years ago because the refrigerator died. 

Hodie (and others):  I have a question about combination vaccinations.  I have seen many threads on different boards (probably this one too) that suggest it is better to insist on single purpose (for lack of a better term) vaccinations (one parvo shot, one distemper shot, etc.), but I have never understood why.  Of course I want what's best for my dog, but at the same time I don't want to be a thorn in my vets side without a good reason.  Therefore I don't want to insist he special order single purpose vaccinations without being able to tell him why.

Since you brought up Dr. Dodd's name..  Empire working dog club will be having Dr. Dodd's in in August..  you can see the information at www.empireworkingdogclub.com   .

I wait until 6 months and older to do my dogs with the rabies vaccine.. usually closer to a year.

Jody

In Florida, or at least my county, dogs are required to have the first rabies shot at 4 months old. I'm going to wait, though. The first shot is valid for one year, after that they can be three year shots.

Jackie

Hodie:

"Trailrider, what you have copied above is old. Dr. Dodds is almost the lone ranger when it comes to vaccinations and the hysteria created by assuming we are over-vaccinating. To date, there is little if any real science behind her concerns and a fair amount paid for by those who would have loved confirmation of her concerns, but in fact, the studies did NOT back her up."

Well I do believe in what she has to say and follow it like gospel. I would be very interest in reading the "studies" that did NOT back her up. All I seem to be able to find is that the Veterinarian Universities seem to follow what she has researched. Also in reference to the small pox study I think we are comparing apples to oranges because humans innoculated as children, whose life span is in general 7x what a dogs life span would be, to me obviously would not pertain. Meaning if you got innoculated for small pox at say 5 years of age and then tested 10 years later, what would be the results of that titer vs if you are tested when you are 60 years of age? Everything wears out...tetnus shots are only recommended every 7-10 years, not necessary before that. Why not the same with rabies or a combo vaccine. I am not in argument dogs need to be vaccinated it is the frequency of the vaccines.

I also realise the study I posted was old but I don't believe it is outdated. It is something I have saved and doesn't pop up on searches as easy as years ago. But is EZ reading...