Sieger show in Canada - Page 8

Another point I want to make.Some of you say that the handlers should've stacked the dog better so he would have been able to hide his true hieght.So now your telling people to cheat.Tell me I'm wrong. Simple solution to a big problem. Have a measuring platform that is level. Then there can't be any faul play.End of descusion.Right, No because then you wouldn't be able to CHEAT!

Another point I want to make.Some of you say that the handlers should've stacked the dog better so he would have been able to hide his true hieght.So now your telling people to cheat.Tell me I'm wrong. Simple solution to a big problem. Have a measuring platform that is level. Then there can't be any faul play.End of descusion.Right, No because then you wouldn't be able to CHEAT!

Silbersee,

Were you at the Canadian Sieger show? You are speaking as if you were there.

Steve,

yes, the judge looked at his hand. That is what I meant when I wrote my statement which you just quoted. The helper laughed and closed his hand in some ,ehem ..., gesture. Ask Walter what was meant.  And please, talk to the helper. Enough said.

Your dog is breed surveyed. Therefore, nobody is going to ban him from breeding. But if he measures taller, please do not show him anymore. Learn your lesson. And  as to your statement that all dogs are taller. The SV should just change the standard! That is ridiculous. Why do we even have a standard then? Our breed is medium-sized. Breeding for taller dogs is asking for trouble. And yes, a lot of dogs are true to the standard. And they should be promoted. Breed accordingly and accept it.. It does show poor sportsmanship to go on and on about it. I hope for your sake that your dogs in the future will always be perfect and not rebite or nibble. Otherwise you will never hear the end of it. You set yourself up for that! And Ronaldo does not look like a female. He is a beautiful medium-sized male and has a lot to offer for this breed. Size for instance! You might want to incorporate that into your breeding program. I wish you continued luck, Steve.

Chris

GCK,

Congratulations on Gorbi's placement.  And I hope to see you again in St. Louis.  I am expecting new puppy breath next week!!!  Hope all is well with you and your dogs.

Will do a translation and post on a separate post. 

Maren

Hey, how about digging a hole right underneath the dog's withers? That might work! Steve, a platform does not make any difference. Any level ground - grass or hard surface will do. When dogs are alert, they appear taller and also might measure a bit more. Therefore it is nonsense to stack a dog up (the frontlegs too far under the body) and call him. And no, that is not cheatig. How can you cheat on a dog's heigth like that? Try it on yourself. You will measure one to two cm taller if you lift your shoulders up.

Autobahn, in spirit, in spirit! LOL. Were you there? If so, when what was your impression? I have heard from quite a few Germans, Canadians and Americans. They all liked the show. Some were a bit disappointed about the measuring, but you live and learn. It happens in Germany, too. It has to settle in that this is what is now being enforced. Judge Wilfried Scheld told me in Long Island in May that they have orders to measure and enforce. One thing is for certain: A lot of nice, slightly big dogs will be up for sale soon.

Just wanted to present a larger context for this thread.  The controversy here is about the Canadian Working Class males.  Leaving that group aside for the time being, Herr Seifert did an admirable job, in my opinion.  The classes were run efficiently and fairly.  I missed a couple of the older puppy classes, but everything that I personally witnessed was correct.  The Working Class Females was a highly uniform group of exceptional quality.  In a larger show, many of the dogs might well have made the coveted VA rating.  Given the size of the event, however, Herr Seifert elected to award only 2 VA titles.  That takes courage.  VA is an elite status and the breed is not well served by "grade inflation" (IMHO).

When Maren finishes the translation of R. Meyer's letter to participants in the German Sieger Show, I hope everyone will read it carefully.  The German National Breed Warden sets the tone for the breed world-wide.  Herr Meyer has the courage and conviction to steer the breed in a direction, to my mind, that is long overdue and highly beneficial.  Herr Meyer specifically warns people not to count on the placements of yester year as a guarantee for this year.  Naturally, there will be a period of transition.  People don't always accept change gracefully.  We are all human! 

Some of the controversy about the Canadian Working Class males is directly related to the German transitional situation.  Yes, large dogs have been highly ranked in the past.  Are they all to be thrown out instantly?  In a pure world, perhaps.  But none of us live in that vacuum.  I can well imagine many German judges struggling now between the old ways (where the evaluations of their colleagues were respected, sometimes at the expense of their own personal opinions), and the new directives to make some dramatic changes in the breed.  Take the case of the Sieger, multiple VA Hoss vom Hirmer Teich, for example.

Hoss has multiple VA awards in the US, as well as very respectable placements in the German Sieger Show.  He has presented very impressive progeny groups on several occassions.  He always does pronounced bite work.  The dog's ring presentation is impeccable.  He is 5 years old and ready to retire from the show circuit.  In the old order, there can be little argument that he deserved the Sieger title.  But  Hoss is a big boy.  Under the new order, Hoss might have been given the option to withdraw from the ring.  Here, I believe, Herr Seifert made the correct call.  With a progeny group like Hoss presented, the dog's value to the future of the breed is there for everyone to see.  Interestingly, none of the progeny appears to be overly large.

About the large dogs withdrawn from the ring:  There were handler miscalculations in at least 2 dogs that I saw.  It's painful, but we should all be big enough to learn from our mistakes.

Gayle

Mike,

I feel like we are all friends here. I've known you, Steve, and Carl for a couple years now. Carl has handled dogs for me and the last time he handled a dog, she went first and Carl received an excellent comment in her critique about her handling. If you ask Carl who found Roxy for him, I'll bet he mentions my name. There's never been anyone in any competition that's never made a mistake. So I don't see this discussion being about supporting friends as much as I do about what's right.

Your prior posts make accusations against the judge for violating a written rule for which there is no room for interpretation. As we see; there is no written rule stating what you claim. Furthermore you have changed your position citing written rules to an opinion by someone you talked to supposedly from the USA organization who said what they would do. Well it's not USA, there's no USA rule for the person you talked to to make that decision and they weren't the judge at the show. So your points and the basis for which you diclaimed misconduct by the judge are unfounded aren't they?

Randy

Randy i am just going to agree to disagree with you. I guess neither one of us is going to change the others mind and i do not want this to turn into a free for all with each of us. I wish you well in St Louis now as i will not be attending that show. As i stated before my observations were as a neutral observer as i showed no dogs at the show. I feel very badly for Steve and Carl and still think the dogs should not have been dismissed Respectfully Michael