Breeder won't lift Limited registration - Page 9

"That $400 may also include the difference in price between a full reg. puppy and a pet price puppy."

Pet Price: $500
Breeding Price: $600

No, the math doesn't add up, but then again, neither did this "breeder" they "found."

I would have to echo Bob's opinion! AKC is to blame, and the ruthless people who breed for all the wrong reasons. In Germany, breeding is regulated by the breed organization or the VDH (which all organizations are members of) and they impose strong restrictions. In our breed, there won't be any registration papers if you do not adhere to them.
If AKC had the same regulations, about 90% of all annual AKC registered GSD litters would not be eligible for getting papers. Sad, isn't it?
And what amazes me even more is that German animal shelters are never overcrowded and they never euthanize for any reason other than severe health issues or behavior problems (rare). These shelters place the highest expectations on their potential adopters and even bring in dogs and cats from Southern Europe to be placed (my brother just adopted a terrier mix from Spain). I also know that owners hardly ever neuter or spay their companions as it is unnecessary. Why is it so different there?
Three different reasons which create a huge overpopulation and surplus of pets when combined:
1) Breed organizations for not implementing minimum requirements
2) "Breeders" who propagate for monetary gain
3) Irresponsible pet owners who dump their animals or pawn them off at the earliest inconvenience which could arise.
It is a sore subject which could be debated endlessly. However, I really do not think that limited registration makes a difference regarding that problem. Educating people - breeders and owners alike, does!!!
Chris

Great post Chris!    Sadly, logic rarely enters the equation in the U.S.  It's left up to organizations like P*TA and HSUS and had regulations been in place from the start, there would be little or no need for either.

Also second that, great post Chris. 

and I agree, it is really only the AKC who could impose restrictions on breeding in order to curtail thoughtless breeding, and therefore curtail unwanted puppies/dogs and "backyard" breeders.  I can see clearly that eliminating the "backyard breeders" and puppy mills who breed registered dogs with no requirements for litter registration (ie some sort of health check, age limit, working title if the breed is a working breed) would then affect the number of unwanted pets in shelters and rescues.

Unfortunately AKC likes making money on registrations.  And the number of registered litters cut down by probably 90% wouldn't happen - ever.  I sure wish there were a way to make that happen.

molly

I have a question maybe Chris could answer - we know the breeding/breeder/registration regulations set on the GSD by the SV in Europe - but are there regulations for registering litters from other breeds?  ie are Pointers required to have a hunting title and certain health checks pertaining to that breed, are Terriers required to have a ground-crittering (or whatever they call that) test first?  What about "lap dogs" - ie toy breeds that really aren't bred to do anything useful?  What about English Bulldogs, whose breed is I think 98% dysplastic, and they can't "do" anything because of their seriously mutated structure?

Seems as if in Germany there isn't a big problem with homeless animals and mass euthanasia, it isn't just the GSD whose breeding is being regulated.

molly

I can answer part of that question.  I grew up with a couple of German Pointing breeds and yes, there is a requirement that they pass a working field test in order to be deemed breed worthy.  I can't remember now what the name of the test was, or the ruling body, but it involved, if I remember correctly, retrieve following a blood trail and a scent trail, in water, open fields and in wooded areas and finding and retrieving various examples of game.  I'm sure there is more to the trial, but this was a very long time ago and I can't remember all of it.  I'm sure my father still has books on the breeds we used.  I'll be going to his house at some point this week and will try to find more information.

To go back to the initial post - there certainly are titles that you can achieve for your dog under 12 months, such as Rally-Obedience or CGC, however those are no working dog titles  (WL-) German Shepherd breeders are looking for. X-rays for hips and elbows, as mentioned in many previous post, ideally made after 12 months of age guarantee health to a certain extent.

I grew up and spent my first 35 years in Germany and would never buy any dog on a limited registration, as I don't need anyone to tell me limits to my dogs life. 

I assume that someone that buys a dog with limited registration is not interested in breeding anyway or has no ideas about the means of this contract.
I would only breed SV titled working dogs with certified hips/elbows, but I'm not a breeder (yet). There are so many unwanted dogs, it's hard enough to place working dogs into suitable homes.
I won't argue with anyone, this is my opinion.

Molly:

I think the demand is different in Germany. Breeds registered with the VDH (German eqivalent to the AKC) and their particular breed - specific club will only have registered litters if they are titled in their specific field (obedience - earthdog test for dachshunds, Schutzhund titles and Koerung for GSDs - etc). Legislation varies in different cities, but in most cities, dog owners are required to pass a test, similar to the CGC test and a theoretical knowledge test, before they can own a dog. This and an annually high licence fee decreases the amount of unresponsible dog owners by far. Further there are hardly any pet stores selling dogs, which limits the amount of puppy mills.

CGC is a certificate.  I'm not minimizing it as I believe it makes all owners (including mutt/pet owners) aware of a certain amount of responsiblity that comes with owning any dog, but a title, it is not.

Yes, it is a certificate, but some ppl think its a title...

GSDtravels here are the titles for German hunting dogs:

Kürzel, Prüfungen und Leistungszeichen des Jagdgebrauchshundverbandes e.V. „JGHV“

VJP = Verbands-Jugend-Prüfung, HZP = Verbands-Herbst-Zuchtprüfung , (HZP o. Sp = ohne Hasenspur, HZP m. Sp. = mit Hasenspur), VGP = Verbands-Gebrauchsprüfung (VGP/TF = mit Tag-Fährte , VGP/ÜF = mit Übernacht-Fährte), VSwP = Verbands-Schweißprüfung, VFSP = Verbands-Fährtenschuhprüfung, Sw = Verbandsschweißprüfung bestanden (Sw I / = im 1. Preis auf der über 20 Stunden-Fährte, Sw / I = im 1. Preis auf der über 40 Stunden-Fährte), Fs = Verbandsfährtenschuhprüfung bestanden (Fs II / = im 2. Preis auf der über 20 Stunden-Fährte, Fs / II = im 2. Preis auf der über 40 Stunden-Fährte), VPS = Verbandsprüfung nach dem Schuss, Btr=Bringtreue-Prüfung (Fuchs), = \ Lautjagerstrich oder LN = Lautjagernachweis (Spurlaut oder Nachweis lauten Stöberns), / = Härtenachweis (oder HN), - = Totverweiser, I = Totverbeller, Vbr = Verlorenbringer auf natürlicher Wundspur ( Hase oder Fuchs ), AH = Armbruster-Haltabzeichen (Gehorsam am sichtigen Hasen), VStP = Verbands-Stöberprüfung, DGStB = Deutsches-Gebrauchshund-Stammbuch, DGStB 7788 = der Hund ist unter dieser Nummer in das DGStB eingetragen - hat also die VGP bestanden. (HZPoE, VGPoE ohne lebende Ente)

Hasenspur= rabbit track
 Wundspur= blood trail
Fuchs - Fox
Stoeber= Air scenting through bush (might be a different English equivalent I don't know)