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by StephanieJ on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
What could possibly be more anatomically incorrect in a dog than not having all its limbs???
There IS something wrong with most GSDs possessing V structure. Their owners have supported a system that ultimately values what the dog looks like vs what he is. One needs only to look at the quasi-leistung enthusiasts attempting to mimic show structure in order to get their breed surveys, and the hochzucht breeders desperately trying to convince someone/anyone that their lump of coal really could find the drugs ("he's not driveless, he's methodical").
To say that one "wants it all" (it used to be called the "golden middle") labels oneself a clueless ninny.
I recall one amateur saying (I am paraphrasing) "when one breeds pretty (show) to good (work) one gets shit.
There IS something wrong with most GSDs possessing V structure. Their owners have supported a system that ultimately values what the dog looks like vs what he is. One needs only to look at the quasi-leistung enthusiasts attempting to mimic show structure in order to get their breed surveys, and the hochzucht breeders desperately trying to convince someone/anyone that their lump of coal really could find the drugs ("he's not driveless, he's methodical").
To say that one "wants it all" (it used to be called the "golden middle") labels oneself a clueless ninny.
I recall one amateur saying (I am paraphrasing) "when one breeds pretty (show) to good (work) one gets shit.
by Rik on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
The original intent of this thread seemed to be V W/L dogs. So why bring s/l and 3 legged mals into it. That might be a good topic for another thread, not an excuse to crap on this one.
Best,
Rik
Best,
Rik
by StephanieJ on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
The V conformation rating is crap. Hence my use of three legged Mals and inferior show line dogs to illustrate my point.
Best to you,
Stephanie
Best to you,
Stephanie
by Jenni78 on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
Rik, my sentiments exactly. Seems we have a newcomer w/an ax to grind.
On another matter entirely, I'm PMing you.
On another matter entirely, I'm PMing you.
by eichenluft on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
the topic of this thread is V rated working line dogs that can still work (and be competitive in the work) - hence my posts and others. Noone is talking about ugly dogs that can work, pretty dogs that can't work, or 3 legged dogs in general. Except you, steph. What's your real point?
molly
molly
by BlackthornGSD on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
If we didn't care what the dogs looked like, we wouldn't be breeding GSDs, we'd be breeding Dutch/mali/shepherd crosses, probably. If 3 leggedness was inheritable, I'm pretty sure we wouldn't be selecting for that feature...
So, if we want them to stay GSDs, if we care about them looking like GSDs, then we should--we need to--care about looks. IMO, I go for a dog that has working ability and health and overall soundness first, but I want to breed dogs I like to look at and live with. The V rating doesn't mean a dog is overangulated or wobbly hocked, not by any means. It does mean the dog has all its teeth and all its legs. :)
My V rated dog --
So, if we want them to stay GSDs, if we care about them looking like GSDs, then we should--we need to--care about looks. IMO, I go for a dog that has working ability and health and overall soundness first, but I want to breed dogs I like to look at and live with. The V rating doesn't mean a dog is overangulated or wobbly hocked, not by any means. It does mean the dog has all its teeth and all its legs. :)
My V rated dog --
by Jenni78 on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
Nice, BT. That dog's expression is so much like Capri's; in fact, they look similar all over, though more like what Capri looks like in person (her happy face anyway, lol) than in pics.
by johan77 on 20 October 2010 - 22:10
Eichenluft, I ´ve seen your dog on film and I agree he doesn´t look that extreme in real life, but I scratch my head why people want to show their dogs in a way that they look extreme, with long "bananabacks" and much angulation, especially if it´s not all dogs that look that "bad" in real life. But I still don´t see why a V-conformation is desired if this is harder to obtain with dogs that have the structure that the older dogs had, especially when this ideal doesn´t make them better workers.
I don´t know how hard it is to obtain a V in conformation in the german system, I´m from sweden where the korung is different and as long as the dogs fulfill a certain quality judged from the breedstandard it pass it´s conformationpart of the korung, to be "pretty" enough for this examination is often no problem for a dog with the structure of the GSDs of the 60s. But going to a show and get the highest rating is another story due to the fact that fads and personal taste of the judges is more of a factor what I´ve understand. So basically I and workingdogbreeders here think it´s certainly enough if the dogs is pretty enough to pass their korungs.
People talk about "coyotes" but how common is that really and what do you mean exactly? Are these dogs below too ugly to not breed structurewise ?
I don´t know how hard it is to obtain a V in conformation in the german system, I´m from sweden where the korung is different and as long as the dogs fulfill a certain quality judged from the breedstandard it pass it´s conformationpart of the korung, to be "pretty" enough for this examination is often no problem for a dog with the structure of the GSDs of the 60s. But going to a show and get the highest rating is another story due to the fact that fads and personal taste of the judges is more of a factor what I´ve understand. So basically I and workingdogbreeders here think it´s certainly enough if the dogs is pretty enough to pass their korungs.
People talk about "coyotes" but how common is that really and what do you mean exactly? Are these dogs below too ugly to not breed structurewise ?
by Rik on 20 October 2010 - 23:10
photos of this years BSP participants. Click on the lg buttons at top to see dogs from each region. Don't know how many are V, but page after page of very well constructed dogs.
These are people competing on a very high level and structure certainly seems to matter.
www.sv-bsp.de/teilnehmer-schh
Rik
These are people competing on a very high level and structure certainly seems to matter.
www.sv-bsp.de/teilnehmer-schh
Rik
by Rik on 21 October 2010 - 00:10
2435 hits so far. Congratulations Prestion on starting a sensible thread of interest to many.
Rik
Rik
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