Show and Working Lines, 2 separate breeds - Page 9

Sorry..Kurzhaar means Shorthair...Yes, theres GSP or Shorthair in the makeup

Heres what the AKC has done to the GWP breed, an example of a likely crossbreed to an EP & what trialing as 'sport' does versus Breeding to Performance Standard. Same breed?  I dont think so, But You tell me.. 

These are 'winning' German Wirehairs, As Opposed to  VDD Deutsch Drahthaars, pictured Above.

Bitch'

Stud

Boogie is a male German Wirehaired Pointer, whelped on May 4, 2004 at the Antelope Creek Kennels. His dam is Heart River Dakota Bandit, "Bandit" (see our female page for more info) and his sire is Heart River V Rahnhaus, "Tojo", 2003 Mid North Regional Field Trial Runner-Up and 2004 2nd Runner-Up. Boogie's "Grandfather" is Three Devils Hustler, aka "Waldo" #1 Male Wirehair Pointer in NSTRA in 1996, '97, '98, '99 and 2000.

They don't look like any German WH pointer I've ever seen... even the colour's wrong, Is the American standard different?

Theres a Standard for the GWP, set forth by the GWPCA.  However, breeding practices are Not monitored and theres No penalty for unethical breeders..

One can Crossbreed all day, to English Pointers or GSPs if one desires, 'forge' the Registrations and have a go at the trial game.  More money in it, No breeding restrictions. This white dog would be penalized in the Show ring BUt can still Stud Hunting dogs.  Thats the American Way....No standards

One cannot make money breeding in the VDD at 1 littler per year AFTER Strict Tessting.   

But One can in the AKC, just win titles and market your ass off.

That's interesting!

The trial game wants light, fast, smaller dogs with RUN, and hence the Crossbreeding to EPs.  It has become a Different Breed Altogether.   I used a drastic example, but again, the white GWP has a 'winning' pedigree as you see and is used as a hunting dog in the Dakotas.

The emphasis of the AKC GWP is on Field Work, NOT the Water and Forest Work of tracking and dispatching game as in Germany with the Drathaar (or true Versatility.)

What is even more interesting is that the Most Successful GWP in American History,  was a German Import..Lutz V Cadenberg,  DC AFC Lutz Zur Cadenburg CD TD

He had never really worked  Birds in his native Germany  or saw one until he was 3, as he was used primarily as a Boar Hunting dog.  He achieved his FC in Record time with More wins than any GWP & sired More Successful trial dogs that any in the breed as far as I know.

A lowly Pig chasing dog German Dog,  embarrassed Americas Finest 'Crossbred ' GWP Pointers!!  Wasnt used that much as a Stud in GWP circles but was a great producer..

One of the best WT dogs I've ever seen, was a black Labrador... sigh, it's true, he was a fabulous dog... Rod Bunn was his handlers name... I think!  Who said horses for courses?  Some dogs can do it all.

Im partial to the British Working Labs. Their trials have a totally different focus and usually are on Live game and shoots, Not like the canned hunt 'wingers' we use, with dead ducks, where its simply a Handling test.  Emphasis on the Line, running blinds.

The US Labs are now mostly poorly bred, theres a wide gene pool, but the emphasis on a cooperative, nice handling, calm dog WITH Nose, is gone here.    I like my Drahthaars for hunting. They have 3xs the nose of Labs & are cooperative.

I run in UKC HRC trials,  a Labs Game, but we do well and have titled.

Im sorry to bore everyone with talk of another breed, but I found it germaine to the discussion, that of GWP vs DD.

Well, this was the best Lab I've ever seen, his manwork was first class in the PD stake.  I wouldn't necessarily call him a regular Lab tho' LOL.  Sometimes you get lucky right?  I dont't think the owner / handler's had a really good dog since! 
I can't ever imagine me having a gundog of any kind, I'm a Shepherd person through and through!

BTW, I haven't forgotten about my Iraqi friends / questions, Uglydog, I've been off sick (bug) so haven't seen them this year... but I will, soon enough!

Uglydog, we have a Drahaar working locally in my area as a drug dog. Holy crap, that dog has drive.

Silbersee- if only I had room for one more dog, I would have been knocking on your door for one of those puppies. I can't believe you got hate mail, how ignorant.

Interesting KCzaja...
As a general Rule, Drahthaars are ONLY to be sold to licensed Hunters, but perhaps the dog is 'dual trained'!?

You Know anything about the dog?  Name/Kennel etc..  Id be interested in hearing more just out of curiosity.

Many have Drive galore ...some aggression issues persist but overall, they are very sound animals.  They do NEED a job. A Few have SchH certs, but they are Hunting dogs Supreme & I think that is where they are best suited.