Who says competitive WL GSDs can't have excellent conformation - Page 8

I agree with what Stef said. Just because it  is rated V by some judge doesn't mean it has good conformation.   If the dog can really  work, they must have the proper conformation. 

Buying into the V conformation jazz, puts yourself in the same boat as the SL.  You are breeding dogs to please someones opinion or fad. We can also stand our dogs in a ring to hide the faults.  Been there done that.

 No one can agree on what the standard actually is.  Everyone changes it to suit their tastes.

I want a good looking dog too, however, I don't consider a froggy back end, good looking, nor do I consider a coyote a proper looking GSD.  Can any of us agree on what is the proper conformation?  Probably not.  That is the problem.  We get used to the look of a  V dog stacked,  however take the dog and let it stand naturally and I don't know about you, but more than likely I'll puke in my mouth a little.

 @Ms. Graft-Then why post the retouched photo at all? There is a power in the marketing of a first impression. Have you never seen that Dove video with the retouched model? You are marketing something that does not exist.
I don't give a crap what SV judges say or do anymore, esp re conformation ratings. Did you miss the part where I said V structure is incorrect?

@Ms. Jenni-While I do have extraordinary (and btw beautiful) children, that is neither here nor there.
Conformation and even structure have very little to do with working ability. I draw your attention to a dog named Racky. (sp? sorry I am not a Mal enthusiast) who was a top competitor in either KNPV or NBKV (again please forgive me for my lack of knowledge of the little yellow nervy dogs). He had three legs. Now, what was it that made him go?
His conformation rating or what was in his head and heart?

@red sable-But that is just the problem-we have been conditioned to want a "pretty" dog by the manipulations of a corrupt system. You cannot value both(work/conformation) equally. Once one reaches that conclusion you see the absurdity of conformation requirements in a working dog.

 So, Red Sable, these make you puke in your mouth? 




The top is V Theres vom Grafental, KKL1, right after weaning a litter, so practically bald. The second 2 are V Capri vom Hagenberg, KKL1.

I don't see how either of them, stacked or natural, as seen here, would make anyone puke in their mouths with regard to structure. 

 Stephanie, you are either an amateur and you don't understand my point, or you're just another one who showed up (or changed a user ID) to make trouble w/your attitude. I'll go along w/the first, for the sake of giving a stranger the benefit of the doubt. Initially, and some of us still wholeheartedly believe this to be true today, structure and conformation was essential to working ability. They go hand in hand. Take the best temperament and put it on a dog whose body won't allow him to do the work, and what do you have? A dog with good intentions?? LOL

another very nice V rated dog, from a V damn who has produced several V progeny including a couple of BSP participants.

www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/pedigree/521572.html

Rik

 @Ms. Jenni-HELLO-I just gave you an example by way of a  three-legged dog. Do you not think that might have handicapped him some? Yet he not only competed but excelled. Kinda weights things on the side of head and heart, doncha think?

 Um, no. But at least now I'm sure you're simply missing my point entirely. 

Having three legs is less of a handicap than some dogs w/poor structure have, obviously. I've seen many dogs w/three legs. They do fine. That has zilch to do with the topic at hand. On the topic....there is nothing inherently wrong w/a GSD possessing V structure. The WL folks who want to make it out to be some kind of flaw in and of itself are simply, IMHO, trying to justify breeding ugly coyotes. 

I want it all or I don't want any of it, personally. I do think breeding is an all or nothing thing.

Jenni, wrong.  Go back and look at the dog Johan posted.  Does that look like a coyote to you?

Here is a V dog.  Not a WL but a V dog none the less.  Is this how you want the WL's to look?  Because that is what is going to happen if we all want V dogs.   I want a good looking dog with good conformation, and to  me that is one like Johan posted. 

Here is my dog out of a V dog.  My parents think he looks like an American line.  I don't think he is as bad as some obviously but he has more rear angulation than I prefer certainly.


This is an honest pic of him standing square.  I'm not out to impress anyone, or BS about how great he is because he is mine.   I am not at all kennel blind.  I care about this breed .

I prefer the conformation of my female.


I grew up on a dairy farm where conformation was taken very seriously for obvious reasons.  Cows had to be a certain age before they could be rated VG.  We should do the same with dogs.  They should only be rated V after a certain amount of wear and tear so to speak, to see if their conformation holds up.

 Wrong? Just wrong? No explanation? How am I wrong? You didn't puke in your mouth, or you did? 

How can you say that's going to happen when the second dog I posted got her V at a show where she was the only one who wasn't a black and red? I think if more people would SHOW dogs who have healthy structure, then perhaps the situation would improve. If black and red roachbacks are all judges ever see, then it's only natural to assume that it's going to lead to a downward spiral where they are graded on a curve. If we continue to shove WL dog in their faces at these shows and display correct, healthy structure, then we might still have hope. 

Your female is too fuzzy for me to really see her structure. Your male's legs do lay under him a bit more than I'd like, but we aren't comparing general dogs to general dogs (unless your dog is V rated and I missed that somewhere). I was showing V rated dogs that are not nauseating in an effort to show that while we are certainly in danger, I don't think all is lost. Maybe I'm overly optimistic.