OVER THE TOP DRIVE DIMINISHING??? - Page 8

DebiSue  At what level is your helper certified and through which organization?

Yoschy I am not clear on why you would be upset if people felt you were not qualified to work their young dogs.  That's just handlers being protective of their young dogs not snubbing novice or intermediate helpers, not to be taken personally.  That's what helper seminars are for, helpers learning how to work dogs. 

I also agree that there is a big difference between  a novice helper working a young dog under the guidance and watchful eye of a teaching helper and a novice helper striking out on his own.  I might be inclined to let  the former work a young dog of mine (providing I watched him work other dogs first and liked what I saw), but never the latter.

Deb,
I had a dog demonstrating what yours did. We were at a loss as to what to do with her, ready to cull her from the program and send her back to her owners with a negative assessment for her future in the sport. :-(

My helper starting taking the dog for walks, played with her, even got down on the ground and rolled around with her making prey with the pilow, till he convinced her he wasn't all bad, but actually a fun, FAIR, guy to bite. She ended up just fine once we crossed that hurdle. She was about the same age as yours at the time. Call it a few big steps backwards... It only took a few sessions till she overcame whatever the hell it was that was in her silly young head. We didn't try to channel her over into defence for several months, helper going back and forth between the two drives smoothly as the dog progressed.
She now works like a perfectly normal dog, balanced in prey and defence, on any helper.

Too bad her hips suck.

Good luck.
Shelley

I agree with most of you who said about using a novice helpers.  I for one would not not use a novice helper with my dog.  She was first tested when she was 12 weeks old and she gripped the rag so tight we walked her sideways with tension on both sides i.e helper on a line to the rag and me on the leash to her little harness.  Only one session and was adviced by the training director to put her away and no more bitework till she was 8 months old.  This was done in Holland with experience helpers.

When I returned to UK she was 10 months old, I was more interested to study the helper work available in my vicinity first.  I would regard myself as cautious because I do not want to ruin my dog in a hurry.  I struck a good rapport with Armin Winkler and since I was long overdued a holiday break, I flew over with my dog then aged 19months to start her foundation bitework for two weeks.  There was nearly a 10 months gap since she did anything but I was so astonished that she learnt so much working in drive for bitework.  I have never felt like this for a long time :)

Good training helpers are like gold dust.  They read the dog so well and they can bring the best out of the dog.  But on the other hand, poor helper work can ruin the grips and confidence for the young dog.

Sue, they are certified thru UScA at what I think is considered "regional" level.  Not sure I am using the correct terminology.  They certified under Mark Chafin last fall.  Lawrence certified before that but I couldn't tell you at what level or with whom but pretty sure the same as the others as far as the level.  We will be getting them certified this year with WDA since our club went that way this year. 

Shelley,  Echo has no fear of Lawrence.  She adores him.  He got down on the ground with her the first day I brought her to the club for evaluation and she climbed all over him.  She is not a shy dog.  She will charge up to anyone, man woman or child and demand to be petted.  The only thing she is cautious about really is inanimate objects that she has never seen.  Wish you could have seen her sneak up on a rick of firewood.  LMAO!  She didn't know what it was, the wind was behind her and she wasn't taking any chances.

Deb

Poseidon
You have it in one, A good helper is Gold dust to a young Dog they can read them so well and give them confidence and bring them on, and a novice helper can do the opposite, They all have to learn but they should not put on the Sleeve unless there is an experienced Helper around to guide them and that is for there sake as well as the Dogs
Steve1

Deb, is he a "teaching" helper or a regional level trial helper?  I'd wager you'd have a much better time with a teaching helper.  I did not know or care about the difference at first but every week I appreciate a good teaching helper more and more...

You're right Liesjers; there is a disctinction and is not all inclusive.  I find that there maybe many certified helpers but that does not automatically classified them as good training or teaching helpers.  Trial helpers have their skills in catching dogs and testing a dog (not to be undermind as well) but a training or a teaching helper is where the skill lies in preparing the dog for great events.

Liesjers,
I really don't know and haven't had a chance to ask him but I'm going to take a guess and say he is a teaching helper.  He does not hire himself out to trials to catch dogs.  He is our club Training Director and held that position when I joined last year. The rest of our helpers took the written test and physical test after a two day seminar at our trial last fall.  They are all beginners, some better than others and one natural fellow who could go far if he chooses to. 
Steve, I
I like the sound of how they do it over there.  Impressive.

Deb

sueincc,

maybe you should go back and read my post. I said i have yet to be upset. also stated very ellaborately that the handler needs to be confident in their helper.

So may you and steve should re-read what i posted.

Steve being defensive as usual didnt read my post either. As i stated with assistance from head helper in the beginning working pups and green dogs.