Look GARD, it's a real dog!!! - Page 8

Where does it say that this dog has worked in any other phase other than the ScH one in the video, But you Guys over there are still missing the point of my posts,
The Dog was supposed to Guard, Not attack yet none of you except for Bob can see that fact,, IT was working and training in the ScH sport Not any other sport, and that is all we can talk about 
Well i really hope one of the Dogs in the USA team does the same this coming week, and that is to attack the helper instead of guarding What are you Guys going to say then i can guess what some of you will say 'It did a really good Job, it just shows your ingnorance of the sport,  I say this  but i know it will not happen for the Dogs are of a far higher quality and have top dedicated handlers to see that they do not do the same as the one in the video

And as for widening my horizons to another type of Dog sport i choose not to, It takes all my time with the one chosen that is to get a Dog to a high degree of Obed, Tracking, and Protection to have a Dog which shows courage, nerves and when i say nerves i mean a dog which can control them even when under pressure, and you will be suprised how many cannot and how few really can that is why you have the best of your country going to the WUSV
And look at the size of your country to the amount of German Shepherds there are in it even doing the ScH sport to be one of the chosen few takes a lot of work on the part of the handler and dog it is not as easy as some may think,
By the end of december i will have attended some 200 training sessions plus over 25 good ScH trials during 2009, and i will say there are not many really top dogs to be seen in all that time,
It matters not what sport you choose to do, whether it be dogs horses or anything else, You do that sport according to the rules and thats it, We can all go on for ever more for we will not agree on what we see in this video so i will bow out now
Steve
edited

Thanks trace755 and GARD for the video link.  Watched all the clips and I share the same conclusion as you that this dog is pretty impressive for what it has achieved for his age.  I would summarised that the dog was not ready yet for off-leash B&H routine and Steve's comment that his nerves got the better out of him was exactly what resulted in the dog taking a cheap bite at first followed by a reciprocate bite when the helper attempted to clean it.  A foolish mistake on his part.  The dog is super! IMO.  Nothing more than better training in this case.

On another web board someone pointed out the bite video was Glock's 3rd time in the blind ever. Here's another video shkola-orlova.ru/view/129f6e0e28ec482723e4fd690a78433c.xhtml it shows Glock and handlers first, second and fourth entry into the blind. Take a look. At the end you will notice Alex with his hand inside the apron and handler with Glock back on leash. Again, someone on another board said Alex on his website admitted he made a mistake. I don't know if it's true since I can't read Russian. If, this was Glock's first Sch B&H training session in the blind. I think it's hard to say anything bad about the dog. In my opinion, it's hard to fault a dog that doesn't understand what's being asked of it. Glock shouldn't have been allowed to think for itself. The helper and handler are at fault. They should have put allot more control work before allowing Glock off leash.

  The bite taught handler and helper a painful lesson. Control,Control and more control. I would like to see this dog in a few months after it understands what is being asked of it.

Steve, I don't disagree with you. I hate to judge by video and not knowing all the dogs history and training. If, the bite video shows anything. It shows protection training should be serious and done safely. Don't push it. Don't make demands on a dog that doesn't understand what's being asked of it. Make sure the dog and handler understand the exercise and are proficient before moving ahead. Make damn sure someone will come to your aid and get the damn dog off of you if you make a mistake.

Steve, You said: "Where does it say that this dog has worked in any other phase other than the ScH one in the video," it doesn't say it on the video. But, if you go here shkola-orlova.ru/video/ you'll see a couple videos of Glock and his littermate Gunslinger doing more than schutzhund. My favorite is not of Glock but the video with the women sitting at a table. The woman laughing after getting smack down with the GSD's butt is priceless.

If it is not on the original thread to see other than what is put on there then that is all you can see and i still stand by what i have said No matter how many times the dog had been to the hide it attacked instead of guarding And the handler as i have already said should have kept the dog on a  line,
The reason for having the dog on the line  is to check the dog if it lunges at the helper with a correction each time it makes a move to do so, The handler did not know what to do no more than the helper did all in all a proper shambles
 You want to see the dog in a few months time, then it needs to get the handler trained before the Dog
If i did what that handler did at my clubs i would have my arse kicked off the field pronto and so would the helper he would never train there again
they do not mess about over here a week or so ago at a trial, The pair of dogs and handlers had just finished Obed one dog did not sit as its handler wanted to whist the scores were being given out he got fed up and smacked his dog on the nose not hard but a smack, The Judge Stopped talking about the Scores and gave the Guy a right Telling off for doing it and he was speaking in the microphone when he said it board casting it so everyone could here it, The Fellow hung his head and went red thats how seriously  the job it taken over here
Not the only place in the world  i know but i can only speak of where i am living, and when i see videos like this one and some of the comments it makes me wonder how many on here do
Steve

I don't think anyone here disagree's with Steve1 and Bob'sopinion on the training and handling of this dog. The vast majority of accidental bites that occure during training fall back on a mistake or mis-judgment by TD, decoy, or handler.

What people are questioning the opinion on the read and judgment on the temperment of the dog. There are a great many in the dog world who actively seek out dogs with this type of temperment. I fall into that category.

The fact of the matter is some people do not have the experience and/or ability to what they call "read" a dog. Some people have an inherent ability to do this with minimal training and experience. Many simply do not posess the ability to read a dog and never will. Most people can learn but it usually takes a lot of experience and guidance from an experienced trainer. To truely be able to read a dog's temperment in bitework, you need to spend a great deal of time as a helper or decoy.

Unfortunatley it is very common in the dog world, and even more common on dog boards for people who gain a little bit of knowledge and start throwing out absolute statements as if they are experts. When someone starts doing that they discredit themselves to people who have the training and experience to properly read a dog.

So again the point I have continually attempted to make in the many years I have been on this board were justified on this thread. If someone chooses to pidgeon-hole themselves into one sport discipline, one training style or ideology, one breed of dog, you limit your self. This is a choice people make. If someone chooses to say, I have trained in Sch for X amount of time, with so and so great trainer, so now I know this or that, hey great. But what are you missing out on?

Bob and Steve had a pretty good read on the training, but were dead wrong on the temperment of the dog. The other available videos shows that. I am not picking on either of them to be a big shot or prove that I am right. I am using it as an opportunity to educate others who frequent these boards seeking knowlege.

What these dogs boards should be about.

"Get a real dog" I agree 100%. Also understand that it is a culture of people who are training and breeding these dogs. What is over the top here is no big deal in Russia or in Czech. Look how they treated the guys wounds. I remember similar situation in Czech during my visit, about 6 years ago. The guy got chopped up similar way and then just went to the hose and washed his woulds and then went and had a beer with friends. Here in USA there would be an ambulance and potential lawyer involvement...if you know what I mean.
Anyway I also would like you to keep me in mind  for   dogs like this, if you do not want them.
Prager(Hans)
http://www.alpinek9.com

gard:

I can read a dog just fine so your back handed swat is what it is Bullshit.. If you like this type of dog thats great have at it but just because you have a problem with schutzhund don,t make it everyone elses probelm your refrences to training and experience  being in question, you have no clue I neither judged you by your preference or your attempted brilliance.

Because I don,t preferer to handle my dogs with log chains wrapped around the neck and attend pit fights doesnt mean that I can,t read temperment on a dog. I don,t need to prove how "REAL" my dog is and I,d never allow what happened on that vid to happen. 

So the next time I need your opinion Mr Dog whisperer I,ll be sure to give you a call. 

prager:

Your just clueless, and I don,t need a ambulance and lawyer to tell me that.

 

I,m sure you and gard have a good time setting around on weekends puffing on cigs and droppin them own your arms to see who can "take the pain"  cause of your eastern european linage...

 

Now Bob, you are just plane mean. Why those personal attacks. You almost made me cry.  You sound like an angry, angry person.
By the way I am not from Eastern  Europe, you silly. Czech is, as any educated person knows, in central Europe.
Prager (Hans)