Showing German at an Ameraican Show

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by Blitzen on 04 March 2008 - 02:03

Old Line Rebel, I wish I'd have saved Fisher's article (or interview, I've forgotten which). I don't recall her specifically mentioning toplines. Her comment was directed more at the overall look/type of the German dogs. I took it to mean she felt they were not as "pretty" as the AS's. AKC is all about pretty and not much else

by ecs on 04 March 2008 - 02:03

Preston, I just wonder how the top AS dog pictures compare to the GSDCA standard. Any stastics there? ecs

by Preston on 04 March 2008 - 03:03

Just about none. I attended the GSDCA National Specialty Show in Denver last year (2207). The pigment was unattractive in general, mostly very distorted dogs, some agitated to the point I suspected some kind of stimulants used. Long dogs with long lower rear thighs. A few with correct fronts, 95% not. I didn't see any really strikingly attractive dogs like I saw at the NASS at St. Louis (about 50% of them and over 90% black and red). Look if folks dig the AS okay, but just admit the truth that they are distorted and need a new standard permitting front to be pushed forward, long backs, and klong lower rear legs.

by Louise M. Penery on 04 March 2008 - 03:03

Preston,

I knew one well-known AKC, handler who regularly used cocaine on her clients' dogs.

2207? Oh, my! Were you in a time warp?

by Preston on 04 March 2008 - 03:03

Louise, no time warp, just a touch of arthritis.

by Speaknow on 04 March 2008 - 07:03

Thought I might as well spice your day a bit more, Preston. Unless continuing flood of German imports wrought major change, it always was relatively easy to pick the American dog, if not from the way it was ever criticized as comprising exaggerated (photogenic) profile instead of substance. But why so sure that Ursus or similar is perfect to the Standard - FCI or old SV. Other than noting height/length proportions and fair bit of detail where separate parts are concerned – hocks, croup, chest, ribs, withers, loin etc – they both specify very little about overall shape; seeming partly to rely on some assumption that because the dog is meant to be a trotter, the rest will automatically fall into place. As quick example, take sentence: “The back, including the loins, is straight and strongly developed yet not too long between the withers and the croup.” And: “With his head thrust forward and a slightly raised tail, a balanced and even trotter will have a topline that falls in moderate curves from the tip of the ears over the neck and level back through the tip of the tail.” Who can say that present show type, or Ursus, have straight, level backs!? Then, being finicky, the back should be “not too long” – as compared to what pray tell! (And, just as an aside, how many VA dogs have 105 degrees plus fore angle say rather than 90?) And in comparing German to American (in show-ring or otherwise) note how AKC Standard requires a rear angle of ninety degrees (between upper and lower thigh, and with toes lining up with croup end!) whereas SV/FCI’s stipulates 120 instead (a difference of 30 degrees!) Theoretically, in lieu of the broader structural implications for respective dogs’ physiques (height, length, front, back etc), it should be quite impossible (assuming AKC Standard was factually observed), if not nonsensical, for them to compete in the same Ring; structure-wise, you’re really looking at different dogs.

by bsceltic on 04 March 2008 - 16:03

BTW - Great discussion! Educational and informative with no serious flaming. I like it.

Melissa

by Andrea Jackson on 04 March 2008 - 18:03

Bill Leonard.....

As they say, "Just the facts, Ma'am":

I bought a puppy from him out of two Schutzhund titled AKC champions years back..... received a sick, VERY shy male puppy with an undescended testicle. After a phone call to Bill, I returned the puppy. It took over a year, and a smart lawyer who was commencing to put liens on his plane, his house and his dogs (that I had Registration & tattoo numbers on) that he finally returned my $1200.00. Of course, I still lost the money to ship him to me and back to him, the crate, vet bills to get the puppy well, countless phone calls to Bill (never returned after the got the puppy), the lawyer and a registered letter to Bill (which he never picked up from the post office).

Ah, lessons learned.....

by Blitzen on 04 March 2008 - 22:03

Been there, done that myself, Andrea. You may know this, anytime you buy a dog from a member of the GSDCA who has signed the Breeder's Code, you can contact the disciplinary committee if that breeder violates any of those codes. They will act in your behalf and investigate your charges. Water under the bridge for you and me, but maybe someone else will read this and use this information if they need it. I think that Code can be found on the GSDCA website.

by Blitzen on 04 March 2008 - 23:03

BTW I was not referring to Bill Leonard. My problem was with a different breeder who was a GSDCA member.

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