officer shoots dog a different prospective

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by seriously on 27 May 2007 - 12:05

Meter readers and mailmen don't knock on doors and peek in windows serving warrants. Nice try though.

What would they do if someone robbed the store they were in. Would they run? Oh, so we should do that too.

whatever...

by Do right and fear no one on 27 May 2007 - 15:05

Not to beat this dead horse any longer, but meter readers, mailmen (UPS), ambulance personnel, salesmen, Jehovah Witnesses' and many others do in fact, knock on doors all of the time. When serving a warrant for non-child support or a similar type warrant (say, failure to appear in traffic court), ya don't prowl around the house, peering through windows, etc. You knock at the door and ask if the person you are looking for is there. If there is no answer or you are told by someone else that the person you are looking for is not there, you ask permission to check the house. If permission is given, you do it. If permission is not given, you live with that denial of permission and attempt to capture your suspect through other means, either at his/her place of work, or wait down the road for a vehicle to leave that house, or just wait until the suspect gets picked up during a routine traffic violation stop. You don't put a lot of effort into capturing these types of criminals, because if you have any experience at all with police work, you understand that thses types of criminals, tend to keep getting into trouble and "checked out" by the law. It just isn't something knowledgeable cops do, prowling around houses with large dogs, peering into windows, looking for non violent warrant suspects. Not that the suspect could not be violent when confronted, but the warrant is not for a violent crime. Unless, you are a very small town cop who is overzealous, or it is somehow "personal", ie: the lady that is waiting for the child support money is FINE :), or you know this particular wanted person and you would just love to "get him". There are dozems of other reasons a cop may go to these extra lengths to capture a person on a non-child support warrant, and it also could be the situation that this cop could just be a cop who is out to do his duty to his utmost ability. But then, a cop inclined to do that, would not shoot someones tied up dog, without at least, firing into the ground to scare the dog off. This cop may have done that, but it would be hard for me to believe that an un-gun trained dog, even a GSD, would continue with an attack when confronted with some very loud, very close, gunshots. If so, then it is doubly tragic as this dog should have had a "job". Of course the dog did have a job. He was a guardian of his family's home while they were away and when they are asleep. I want to give the benefit of the doubt to the officer in almost every situation, and I do not want an officer who has to make a decision in less than a second, when confronted with a dangerous surprise situation, to be Monday Morning Quarterbacked, however, I also am not sending a letter to his superiors, nor suggesting that he be fired. I am simply stating that this situation with the shooting of Max, just doesn't pass the "smell" test, and the officer should be re-evaluated and re-trained in his warrant serving tactics, and the police department in that particular location, should be re-evaluating their warrant service procedures. You just don't do it with one officer, ever. Even if the town only has one officer. A nearby department or another branch of Law Enforcement (say, the Sheriff's office), or even a volunteer officer (ride along), should assist. But never serve a warrant, without another on your side present. Even if the suspect is your own brother.

by ProudShepherdPoppa on 27 May 2007 - 15:05

Since this thread is title a different prospective maybe somene could suggest a scenerio, that fits all the facts, where this shooting might be justified. I can't think of one.

by Sunsilver on 27 May 2007 - 15:05

Arrrghh! This is annoying me too much. It's spelled PERSPECTIVE, meaning 'point of view'. 'Prospective' means something relating to the future, as a 'prospective buyer' of your dog.

by EchoMeadows on 27 May 2007 - 15:05

There is just not a single scenerio out there that would "CAUSE" any 'REASONALBE' person to shoot a tied up dog 7 freaking times, after it nipped you, after you FIRST invaded the dogs space..... It's just not there I've mowed it over every single thing I can think of does NOT fit !! Now if the dog had broken loose and launching an all out attack, which it's obvious he did not, (he warning nipped him) Maybe then someone who is seriously chicken livered has no nerves and scared to death of dogs might unload 7 rounds. But NOT a single REASONABLE person I know would have done this given the actual circumstances in which this tragedy occured.

by Do right and fear no one on 27 May 2007 - 17:05

Actually, I could think of many circumstances that could lead to this officer shooting a tied up dog seven times. One would be if the officer is there looking for a wanted peerson that he has looked for before and later found out that this wanted person exited through a window near where the dog is tied up and the officer decided that he wanted to out fox the suspect. The officer knocked at the front door and then quickly went around to "wait" by the window near the dog. The dog, which may not have even barked at the officer the previous time the officer attempted to serve the warrant, may have decided (perhaps because of the hurried motion towards the dog, the officer is now using to get to the window quickly), to bite at the officer, which caught the officer somewhat off guard and the officer attempted to back up but sprained his ankle in his attempt to get away from the dog, or more likely, the officer could have gotten the dogs tie rope or chain, around the officers leg or foot. This would have further excalated the situation, with the dog thinking that he was under attack (which he already assumed when the stranger was running towards his area). The officer could also have fired at the ground to scare the dog away (helping to account for there being seven shots fired), but the dog, unable to leave because of the officers leg being entangled in its rope, would continue to threaten the officer, causing the officer to panic and shoot at the dog, or not panic, and actually make the decision that he did not want to get bitten even once by this dog, and shoot first.

I know that I am jumping through hoops to give a possible scenario, but strange things do happen all of the time, and whatever can go wrong, sometimes will.

I have a problem with the officer doing any of this without a partner or backup. Serving a warrant for anything is just not prudently done without someone on your side there, unless it is happenstance that you see someone in front of you that you know is wanted and you want to apprehend him before he leaves. That sometimes occurs. But to go to someones house to look for him, to arrest him on his home turf, is just sheer folly, without backup. Even for failure to appear in court on a jay walking citation.

by ProudShepherdPoppa on 27 May 2007 - 17:05

Since this thread is title a different prospective maybe somene could suggest a scenerio, that fits all the facts, where this shooting might be justified. I can't think of one.

by sueincc on 27 May 2007 - 17:05

Seriously; I seriously hope you are not an officer in my community!! Your rants, name calling & obvious disdain for every member of society scares the crap out of me. You are displaying an "us versus them" mentality that perhaps was common in the old days, but thank goodness is no longer present. Police officers have worked very hard to show members of the community they are the ones fighting the good fight on the front lines to protect all law abiding citizens. You seem to be doing all you can to wipe out any good will garnered with a few hasty key strokes. I don't know, maybe you are not really an officer of the law at all, jsut a sad little flamer. As to people who have nothing better to do than post every day, you would be amazed that all I can do in one day! I track my dog, train my dog, play with my dog, talk to friends, socialize with same, track my investments, clean my house, water the lawn, cook, visit 4 dog message boards & still manage to get enough shut eye to wake up the next day bright eyed, bushy tailed & ready to do it all again (plus anything else that comes my way) the next day! Might surprise you to know I am just like everybody else that posts every day.

by allaboutthedawgs on 27 May 2007 - 18:05

Let me start off by saying that years ago I was a cop. Got out of it because I saw first hand the shit they slide by with knowing that if the situation came to court the jury will believe the cop over the bad guy because they WANT and NEED to believe that cops are selfless people with integrity and charachter. Not all cops (state, local and sheriff I came into contact with) were this way but enough that I didn't have the stomach for it and got out.

However, as far as the rope goes, how in the hell did he know how long it was and that he could make it past the end of it before the dog?

As far as how many shots-google "Platt and Maddox" to see how far adrenalin can carry you even while being shot multiple times.

As far as the dog barking and him knowing yeah, he should have known. But lets face it, there are so many dumbass people out there who have no CLUE about animal behavior and then try bullshit stategies to dominate them. Good luck with that dealing with a DDR dog! People are stupid. Go to any pet smart, vet's office or park and see what fucking idiots are about dogs. By the sound of things he was probably the idiot that pushed this confrontation with the dog to it's horrible conclusion. In which case his supervisors should have hit the "duh" factor about this guy long ago. But, we all know or suspect that cops do close ranks because they think their jobs are more dangerous so they have the right. Bullshit. My husband is a line man and is in much more consistant danger everyday.

by allaboutthedawgs on 27 May 2007 - 18:05

Look, my kids and I only tear up in the movie "Turner and Hooch" when the dog gets shot. Not any of the humans. Cringe on westerns when the horse goes down at a run and not the rider. And we stop to move the turtles off the road when they get run over. So, I am the first one to protect an animal over a human. But GARD dog makes a good point about emotion based judgements.

I'm trying not to make an emotional decision againt the cop (even though I hate them, in general) or for the animal (even though I love them, in general).

Usually fairness sucks to extend to either party but it leads to less "eating of crow" in the end. We can't really be fair until the facts do come out.

Then let's hang the bastard :).

Dawg

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