Coco - Page 7

Far away from wise, Hundmutter - but thank you for the compliment.

Is this test for "parentage" or is it for "breed" ?

A while ago I read that Germany tests for other genetic traits than the US, simply because the German GSD population is genetically different than the US "ASL" population...

In case the pedigree is legit we do have a mix of German, ASL, and white dogs already...
Anybody who knows more about the procedure?

Interesting question, Swarn. What would you do?

Sunny, oh good, a PROPER DNA profile; not just a commercial "What breed is my dog ?" one - I was a bit worried about that. BUT if only the Sire's DNA is available for comparison, and if the GSD sire isn't actually the biological sire, while that will be confirmed by failure to match, the OP will still not have all the answers.

Swarnendo - I think one problem here (why those of us who have been saying "we've been around GSDs a long time, this is just not a purebred GSD" as we have) is that simply comparing an individual dog to the Standard (even to the originating German Breed Standard, never mind the modern FCI one) is frought with the difficulty of personal interpretation.

Yes, the sentence you quote about the topline should be clear as a bell - but we also have the AKC version, the British KC version, plus 'unofficially' various authors' versions in their many books, the beliefs of many on the 'working side' ... all of which have managed to sustain different interpretations of that topline, in practice. Let's face it, there is, in truth, a great deal of difference of opinion about the structure of a 'good' example of a GSD. And an all-too-flexible domestic dog genome.

These interpretations won't wash with you or with me, or inside the Showring (except where the host countries aren't taking the SV's / FCI's word for it and wrote their own Standards !), or for the Registration of litters with Kennel Clubs - hence the reason for the fraudulent substitution suspected in this case. But in everyday dog identification ??? In deciding whether your purchase is 'pure' enough to breed from, and get away with telling the purchasers that your dog is a purebred 'German Shepherd' even if without papers ??? Hmmm.

The OP has already almost convinced himself that just because his bitch has a head similar to that of one or more known GSDs, that speaks volumes for the veracity of his papers and the origin of the whole dog.

Sunny, did you notice the self-description in some of the ads the kennel is currently running? "First Four Kennels is a small non-profit kennel and farm ..." WTF is a 'non-profit kennel and farm'? Are they saying they're a 501C operation?

Winnel, in answer to your question as to why no one has stopped the breeder from continuing to produce and register what are pretty clearly mixed-breed dogs as purebred German Shepherd Dogs, the short answer is that most likely, no one has yet complained to the AKC that they bought a pup that was advertised to be, and sold on the basis of, a purebred German Shepherd Dog, complete with AKC registration paperwork.

Which question Susie? Breeding from an unregistered seizure alert dog? I'm not a breeder, so I'd roll my OPINION and.... keep it someplace safe.

But hey, it's I who had ASKED the question, and WISER people of the forum are supposed to ANSWER, WITH reason, not send the ball back to my court. But, GSD has long ago lost the top place as Seeing Eye dogs, now Labrador X Golden Retrievers are the most preferred...

Hundmutter, I've supplied the link to OP because of the particular dogs he's researching. The top line quote was to show him that though he has already made up his mind about the structure of ideal GSDs, he doesn't EVEN know yet where the "BACK" of the dog is.

I get that, but you have to consider what else your post is inadvertently saying to the wider audience.

Yes, Swarn, exactly THAT question.
I am no breeder like you, but I do have an opinion.
In case this male really is that outstanding in his job ( didn´t you say he is AKC registered ? ), I´d search for a registered female able to do the same job.
In case that´s not possible, I might go with an unregistered female, but only in case I´d be able to find at least 6 suitable homes prior to breeding.
What makes me think twice, is that the male, although already bred to several females, was not able to pass his "ability" to at least one puppy yet.
Maybe not worth the risk

Excellently explained, Susie. All these aspects were already considered, including contacting the AKC to find a way to register the puppies. The breeding has been kept postponed till a solution is found. It has been almost two years.

Another example for OP how a RESPONSIBLE breeder works..

Footnote to my previous post - the 3 GSD pups I saw listed on Puppy Find, and another puppy-for-sale website this morning are now gone. The only puppies now listed for First Four Kennels are these two:

http://www.puppyfind.com/l/?acct_id=634895    

@hexe. In order to be a non-profit kennel they need to be under the umbrella of a non-profit organization. Selling mixed designer breeds isn't what the IRS designation of 501 (c) 3 is intended to be, is my concern.

In other words, a non-profit kennel would take in rescue dogs, provide medical care if needed, spay and neuter and seek forever homes. They would be a kennel that ASPCA might use if they took on a hoarding situation, as an example.

Maybe a lawyer should be looking into this.

 bee, spot on. That's why it struck me as so outrageous to see the operation defining itself as a non-profit...just when you think you've seen every bullshit claim a breeder can make, a new one comes floating along like a turd in a toilet bowl.